…he did to that friend before. It's really Esau He's going to have to meet. He did him out of a birthright. Thomas Mann handles that beautifully in the first volume of the Joseph and his brothers. Jacob has cheated here cheated there, cheated everywhere…

…discoveries of mythological relevance to contemporary circumstance of two of the greatest creative minds of the present century, namely Thomas Mann and James Joyce. I regard these as sort of matched heroes. Thomas Mann, proceeding from a Protestant base, and…

…creative minds of the present century, namely Thomas Mann and James Joyce. I regard these as sort of matched heroes. Thomas Mann, proceeding from a Protestant base, and James Joyce from the roman Catholic, moved into the problems of the contemporary world…

…works of each were in the style of the 19th century naturalistic novel and are autobiographical in content: the Budden books of Thomas Mann and tonio Kruger of Thomas Mann Budden books, a great two volume family Saga, and tonio, the story of a dislocated…

…of the 19th century naturalistic novel and are autobiographical in content: the Budden books of Thomas Mann and tonio Kruger of Thomas Mann Budden books, a great two volume family Saga, and tonio, the story of a dislocated youth finding his art style and…

…that are rendered through contemporary lives. And then finally, in the 30s, both men slip right down into the mythological realm: Thomas Mann in his Joseph Novels, the great tetralogy of Joseph and his brothers, and James Joyce in Finnegan's wake. I'm not…

…ready to understand lisaveta, who never danced in her life. Banshee, as the Russian represented the non European world and in Thomas Mann the russians. She comes up again in the magic mountain the Russian Girl stands for Asia, which for the European is…

…with their words, they were very keen with their observation in detecting faults. Now this brings us to this basic point which Mann brings up in this really remarkable work. By the way both buddenbrooks and tonio came out before Thomas Mann was 25 years…

…to this basic point which Mann brings up in this really remarkable work. By the way both buddenbrooks and tonio came out before Thomas Mann was 25 years old he wrote these are his youth works. When you use words to describe, you have to point to and…

…that he names erotic irony, plastic irony. You regard with the keenest eye you can and I had the privilege of meeting Thomas Mann and being with him for rather a while, and you always feel that this man is reading you right through. Without very…

…measure of how many faults you can detect with love in the world, in your neighbor and so on. I'll say this to Thomas Mann: he identified himself with tonio Kruger, and tonio was himself and with the principle of love going along with the principle of…

…and at that moment his art broke up also this is a very important thing when the artist's formula is that of which Thomas Mann made his life, namely erotic irony where the love factor cracks, you get into something else besides the kind of art that…

…made his life, namely erotic irony where the love factor cracks, you get into something else besides the kind of art that Thomas Mann was talking about you get into propaganda. Which is another thing. So erotic irony became his clue, it is the key to…

…enormous thing to discourse upon. The story is simply of a young man brought up in Northern Germany again, Hans Castorf, as Thomas Mann says a simple young man who moved automatically into his life career. He was a competent student in engineering and he…

…what would the total change be? Nothing better for a person. Brought up in Northern Germany which is a rather flat land and Mann uses this term, the flat land to describe the world of the establishment. There's nothing better than to go to the mountains.…

…away. You haven't seen a newspaper I don't know what's been going on since I've been here. This is a totally different as Thomas Mann says, hermetically sealed retort, sealed away from the life of the world. He goes up there to eternity where one day or…

…and the mother who lived. The opposite in everything, as in that argument, these two stand against each other but as Thomas Mann points out during the course of the book, finally both of them are in totally illogical positions because they're simply verbal…

…into the war on the opposite side from that which Seddon Beeney would have liked to have seen him join. He joins, as Thomas Mann says, there where blood called, not ideas. He went into the German Army and the last scene is Hans in the trenches. That…

…of the trench warfare of world war I. That's the magic mountain. There is an adventure, there is the mythological themes, and Thomas Mann in that work and I do suggest you read it he associates every single event and he tells you what the association…

…in aveternity, in that realm of images which are timeless, and to see them operative in time is the problem, whereas with Thomas Mann it works the other way he's brought up in the Protestant world. When you go into a Protestant Household you don't see…

…favorite horses and things like that, landscapes that people want to enjoy you see the phenomenology of temporal life, and so Mann goes from those into the realm of mythological images. Joyce goes in the opposite direction. Well, to speak then briefly of…

…of the being of existence in which death is part of the seed. Well these then are the two art approaches of Mann and Joyce Joyce stressing that eternal, grave and constant eve eternal, unchanging thing which is the world of the mythological forms and…

…Joyce Joyce stressing that eternal, grave and constant eve eternal, unchanging thing which is the world of the mythological forms and Mann stressing the timely presence for which you feel criticism and love at the same time. One stressing the person to…

…of the jains in terms of the Buddhists and so forth and they'll help you to get out. I would like to know if Mann ever explicitly stated his formula the way Joyce did in Stephen's Essay. Oh yes, Mann has written quite a number of papers. In fact…

…to get out. I would like to know if Mann ever explicitly stated his formula the way Joyce did in Stephen's Essay. Oh yes, Mann has written quite a number of papers. In fact I don't know any author who has explicated himself more than Mann. Very few of…

…yes, Mann has written quite a number of papers. In fact I don't know any author who has explicated himself more than Mann. Very few of these explications have been translated however, there are about five volumes of Mann Essays, including one very great…

…who has explicated himself more than Mann. Very few of these explications have been translated however, there are about five volumes of Mann Essays, including one very great volume that he wrote during the war which is the key to the whole thing, called…

…man, a big, fat work in which the whole problematic of the magic mountain is presented. Now during the writing of that work, Mann was a German of the germans he was on the German side emotionally and every other way in the first world war, when…

…after Germany had been smashed and lost the war, they come out in a perfect balance. Then, as the later decades follow, Mann Emotionally and every other way went over to the other side. That book will never be translated just for that reason. It's…

…Emotionally and every other way went over to the other side. That book will never be translated just for that reason. It's the Mann Nobody would like to hear about now but it's the one that gives his position now Joyce never did what Mann did. Joyce…

…It's the Mann Nobody would like to hear about now but it's the one that gives his position now Joyce never did what Mann did. Joyce never tipped over and became propagandistic. When you read Finnegan's wake you find Mann at his worst as well as at…

…position now Joyce never did what Mann did. Joyce never tipped over and became propagandistic. When you read Finnegan's wake you find Mann at his worst as well as at his noblest. There are passages in Finnegan that are appalling and he writes them always…

…tearing a kitten apart the child didn't know what he was doing but look what he's doing with the dear little thing. And so Mann, with all the horrendous things he does to himself and to his neighbors the hell of the world is Mann operating on himself…

…little thing. And so Mann, with all the horrendous things he does to himself and to his neighbors the hell of the world is Mann operating on himself you might say. But that's the heaven of the world too that's all there is that's where the joy is.…

…can assume the metaphysical in his living. He will act as a man with moral judgments and so forth. This doesn't mean that Mann and Joyce were monsters, because they could absorb the monstrous in life. So you have your two aspects and this is, of course,…

…civilization which we inherit the high myth as homer does for the great greeks or the mahabharata for the Indian world this I think is the prime myth of the western world. It turns up again in Mann, in Joyce and in one great writer after another.

…way of the world in this mythology of which I'm speaking now I want to conclude with a modern person, a modern author, Thomas Mann, who has dealt with this problem from one side and the other and there's a charming short story that I'm sure a short…

…lovable about the person and there's a way to do this so that one feels the love. But there comes a problem here which Thomas Mann found out a little later as to say those blue eyed blondes turned out to be, from his point of view, quite monstrous.…

…were two formative books for me, and along with them saying the same thing in another language you might say, were the works of Thomas Mann. They meant a great deal to me as well. The magic mountain, I must say was tremendous for me in the world of…

…and Aquinas those are men who understood symbols, the symbolic sense of the imagery of the Christian Tradition. For Thomas Mann, the great people were Goethe, Who's just inexhaustible with this stuff, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche then I also ran into Spengler…

…me personally when I was growing up I had sports heroes but also the heroes of my intellectual life. James Joyce was one, Thomas Mann Another and I think people have those heroes now as well, private to each. It's a world where we have many, many ways…

…that but they were not the same flood level they were local floods. Now what happens and this is a point that Thomas Mann makes very, very well in the first part of his Joseph and his brothers series the archetypal flood is a mythological, psychological…

…were two formative books for me and along with them saying the same thing in another language, you might say, were the works of Thomas Mann. They meant a great deal to me as well. The magic mountain, I must say was tremendous for me in the world of…

…figure and Aquinas those are men who understood the symbolic sense of the imagery of the Christian Tradition. For Tobias Mann, the great people were Goethe, Who's just inexhaustible with this stuff, Schopenhauer and Nietzsche. Then I also ran into Spengler,…

…me personally when I was growing up I had sports heroes, but also the heroes of my intellectual life. James Joyce was one, Thomas Mann Another and I think people have those heroes now as well. Private to each, it's a world where we have many, many ways…

…really guided James Joyce, and since James Joyce was not only in my opinion but in the opinions of many others including Thomas Mann, the greatest novelist of the first half of the 20th century, I feel no modesty in presenting his theory of aesthetics.…

…life. Art affirms the object, it looks at it with rapture and the rhythms are bringing out that radiance. Now to conclude, Thomas Mann matched Joyce in a very interesting way in his career. This has something to do with the whole process through the…

…you to develop in yourself. Well now in conclusion, let me say, after their first works with these aesthetic theories presented, Mann and Joyce Simultaneously, neither reading the other's works this know I brought out within two years of each other after…

…reading the other's works this know I brought out within two years of each other after the first world war, respectively: Mann, the magic mountain in 1924, Joyce, Ulysses in 1922 and under the apparent texture of a naturalistic novel they showed mythic…

…history at exactly the same time. And then the last great works of Joyce, Finnegan's wake which came out in 1939, and of Mann the Joseph Novels from 1933 to 1943, long, terrible span there including a world war and terrible things. These two works fell…

…stinks, and you must have compassion for that and so do you by the way, this is what's called the awakening of love. Thomas Mann in the tonio kyrga has the story. He was a youth among people who really were rather different from himself and so he's…

…and as religion is the biggie. Author and psychologist, Dr James Hillman. No one in our century not Freud, not Jung, not Thomas Mann or Levi Strauss has so brought the mythical sense of the world and its eternal figures back into our ordinary daily…

…it, and he calls the elementary idea archetypes of the unconscious. Now that's what the archetypes of the unconscious are. So in Thomas Mann, after the magic mountain and that vision of Hans Castorp in the snow which was taken, as we saw yesterday from…

…Mann, after the magic mountain and that vision of Hans Castorp in the snow which was taken, as we saw yesterday from Nietzsche, when Mann begins then to move into the myth, as you might say, extrapolating that image, he has to turn to Jung, not to say…

…energies have been repressed and are consequently frightening for you. In the preceding program, Joe told the story of Thomas Mann speaking at Sigmund Freud's 80th birthday party Mann said that Freud's great achievement was in unknowingly recapitulating the…

…for you. In the preceding program, Joe told the story of Thomas Mann speaking at Sigmund Freud's 80th birthday party Mann said that Freud's great achievement was in unknowingly recapitulating the ideas of the romantic philosophers. Mann went on to say…

…Freud's 80th birthday party Mann said that Freud's great achievement was in unknowingly recapitulating the ideas of the romantic philosophers. Mann went on to say that the work that he himself was involved in his Joseph Novels was deeply influenced by…

…occidental rationalism and oriental mysticism. That gave us an essential insight into myth, for the myth is the foundation of life, Mann said and when a writer has acquired the habit of regarding life as mythical and typical, there comes a curious…

…into the higher truth depicted in the actual, a smiling knowledge of the eternal, the ever being and authentic. Now what Thomas Mann tried to do when he turns to mythology was to reinterpret genesis in terms of the elementary ideas that are implicit…

…Heritage into a heritage for mankind instead of for a certain group. You get my point. It's a big one, and this is what Mann is working on. This is what Jung is working on, this is what Joyce is working on, this is what everyone's working on who's…

…novel was called Joseph and his brothers that's the name for the whole four volumes, which were originally thought to be three. Mann was really planning three but it opened up became more and more involved and excited about it. The proper name of the…

…bottomless? And as one who has tried himself to go back to the origins of mythic forms. I can see this it is bottomless and what Mann does is try to trace it back the myth of the flood and the myth of the Tower of Babel, and then back of that one…

…an atlantis concept we know where the first cities came into being and it has nothing to do with the sunken continent but Mann is using that sunken continent image as the image for the rise of the first great city states and high cultures. So mythology…

…own high place. You have a mythology of the mystery religions. Now there were a number of German Writers at the time when Mann was working on this material, of reizenstein in particular, who were dealing with this mythology and the basic myth is of the…

…remind those who are stuck in the field of matter that there's a way out, and so he opens the way to release. Now Mann is interpreting the Joseph story in terms of that descent and release. Already in the church, the descent of jesus into the tomb was…

…well, and the imagery of the old testament was regarded as prefiguring the history of the new. So these two are together and Mann is doing that. But Mann sees something else also: the imagery of the old testament is a post figurement of the imagery of…

…the old testament was regarded as prefiguring the history of the new. So these two are together and Mann is doing that. But Mann sees something else also: the imagery of the old testament is a post figurement of the imagery of the sumerians and of the…

…it's part and Parcel of our history and it's a very delicate job to open it up this way. This is what I see Mann doing in that work. Well, Mann makes the statement early that this is a definition of the mythological material in terms of the…

…and it's a very delicate job to open it up this way. This is what I see Mann doing in that work. Well, Mann makes the statement early that this is a definition of the mythological material in terms of the perspective, particularly of Joseph. It's Joseph…

…for Jacob and twice for Joseph. I wrote the hero with a thousand faces after I had worked on the Joseph's Novels of Mann and the magic mountain of Mann and Joyce's Ulysses and Finnegan's wake, and also after years of work on mythology. And it was…

…I wrote the hero with a thousand faces after I had worked on the Joseph's Novels of Mann and the magic mountain of Mann and Joyce's Ulysses and Finnegan's wake, and also after years of work on mythology. And it was Joyce and Mann who brought out…

…magic mountain of Mann and Joyce's Ulysses and Finnegan's wake, and also after years of work on mythology. And it was Joyce and Mann who brought out this great cycle of the departure from the world in which everybody is living, the flatland and the going…

…later on, not the same well but another well, and his whole trip into Egypt is, as it were, a plunge into the well. Mann is stating this right in the very first motif there. And then the coming out, now the identification of the different aspects of…

…then the coming out, now the identification of the different aspects of the journey with actual psychological positions and so forth is what Mann is doing in the first pages while it goes on and on throughout in terms of the great gnostic story of the…

…on and on throughout in terms of the great gnostic story of the cycle of the deity's descent into life and return. Mann establishes the terms spirit, geist, matter and soul. Spirit and matter are relatively fixed and inert and the soul is the dynamic…

…god says here now bow to man oh no we're old fashioned, we stay with the first word. So the angels represent and Mann has played this earlier in some of his other things represents righteousness in terms of a fixed position which does not yield, doesn't…

…the dynamic soul. Are we getting this? He calls it the Reich Der Sterne, the kingdom of the stern ones the strict ones. Thomas Mann elucidates each of these phases: the zeal of god with the zeal of the heart as against the kingdom of sternness and…

…the eve of world war Ii, Mann's Joseph Novels attempted to reconcile the two. Now I would say that in the Jacob Novel Thomas Mann really got into the realm of myth and he was writing out of mythological forms, not making up stories but taking an…

…story one took one of the traditional stories. This was called the matter and then you gave it a sense. And this is what Thomas Mann has done with the Jacob story and I would say that when he moves then into the Joseph stories he is just writing out…

…the second Joseph Novel the young Joseph is one of the most magnificent statements of mythological themes that I've read anywhere and Mann brings the whole load in in relationship to Joseph and is playing it all the way through with all kinds of nuances…

…get the ambiguity. There wouldn't have been any story if Joseph Didn't have his pride. So there's something good about that too. You see Mann is really doing it all the way it's a grand job and it's a very simple story of the beginning of the descent…

…these things now again if you haven't read them yet, if you have read them once, that you watch for these wonderful analyses Thomas Mann is giving of the meanings of this, that and the other. He is translating the whole thing into a very rich and…

…of art, Campbell would frequently point to two of the great modernist authors. The first, of course was Joyce the second was Thomas Mann, who may be less widely known in the English speaking world but who had very much the same revolutionary impact on…

…but who had very much the same revolutionary impact on modern art and thought ♪♪. I think the best way to get into Thomas Mann if you've never read any of his things at all is to read his short stories his early short stories. They're marvelous they…

…press by 1900, and that is before Freud had published the interpretation of dreams. So you'll see when you read it that Mann is full of the same dynamic that the freudian discovery of the unconscious which was no discovery represents. And there you had…

…even you know ski laughter he didn't think that was too great. So he separated himself from them. And this is where Thomas Mann got the idea of Der Verehrte bürger, the lost bürger, the person who is neither this nor that. Zwischen zwei Welten, between…

…a letter back to the queen bee of the circle that he had been among, and her name was lisaveta. She was a Russian, and Mann had something about russians in the magic mountain there's the clavity of the Russian with her tot her eyes and all. And so he…

…culminating scene of Hans Castorp's illumination out in the snow where he falls asleep he has exactly that image. Like tonio Kruger Thomas Mann was the child of mixed heritages. His father was a good lutheran from lubeck, while his mother, as Mann put it,…

…Like tonio Kruger Thomas Mann was the child of mixed heritages. His father was a good lutheran from lubeck, while his mother, as Mann put it, first saw the light of day in Rio De janeiro as the daughter of a German Plantation owner and a Portuguese…

…This is another dimension of life that mephistopheles szembriny has nothing to do with. Now the chapter in which Mann is describing szembriny's activity is called encyclopedics, encyclopedia, the encyclopedists of the 18th century, the French Enlightenment this…

…on psychoanalysis by Krakowski and in front of him is klavdia with bare arms and feet like this and it's wonderful the way Mann Describes it with Hans looking at that arm and pinching his lips. This is impulse and restraint you know, and his handkerchief…

…revolution and now the communist revolution. And are they different? And they use many of the same words. Now I once met Thomas Mann and we were talking together and we were talking about the magic mountain and he said he had made a mistake, that…

…how it is now, but in those years of my own middle age you might say these were the big arguments that were going on and Mann had worked the whole thing out. But then climax comes in a speech that NAFTA makes, and when I read it I thought: my god…

…climax to this: Hans thinks he'll go skiing. Now this wonderful scene of Hans on his skis. And he can't ski very well. But Mann makes a point: if you really want to do something you can do it well enough. And if it's part of your requirement for…

…from Europe in September 1929, his mind was bursting with what he had learned and how all of it, from the novels of Mann and Joyce to the Hindu Scripture to the psychology of Freud and Jung, informed his understanding of the arthurian legends that he…

…some of the great insights of the Asian Traditions: the German Romantic philosophers. In 1936 there was a very amusing occasion: Thomas Mann was invited to give the talk at the party in honor of Freud's 80th birthday. Now how anyone could have thought…

…Now how anyone could have thought that an artist could talk about anyone but himself, I can't imagine. And it was amusing. Thomas Mann started by saying he didn't understand why he had been invited to do this, because he was an artist, a creator, and…

…that was published of this talk is called Freud and the future. As I say it had almost nothing to do with Freud. Mann begins by saying that the real achievement of Freud was that he had, through his own researches reproduced in medical terms all the…

…German Romantic philosophers of the 19th century, even though Freud had never read any of these. He did not know Schopenhauer, says Mann, he did not know Nietzsche, he did not know Kierkegaard and out of his ignorance, on his own boat he had reproduced…

…the information that Freud then produced, also in other language and with a totally different slant. About halfway through the lecture Mann mentioned the unutterable name namely of Jung, and how Jung was inspiring the work that he was doing now which was…

…of this century this was a wonderful period in the arts. I'm going later to be talking about Joyce and Joyce and Mann Completely ignorant of each other, went through simultaneously a transition in their novels, in their writing from what might be called…

…Joseph Novels and Joyce's Finnegan's wake, and they came out well Finnegan's wake came out around 19 it did come out in 1939 and Mann had already started his Joseph Novels at that time. It took him a long time to build up for Mann as he went into…

…out in 1939 and Mann had already started his Joseph Novels at that time. It took him a long time to build up for Mann as he went into the material now interesting in contrast is that Joyce was a Catholic, Irish Catholic, and Thomas Mann had been…

…up for Mann as he went into the material now interesting in contrast is that Joyce was a Catholic, Irish Catholic, and Thomas Mann had been brought up a German Protestant. Now a Catholic is brought up in a mythological ambience. Insofar as you take the…

…to this mythological ground to see the world in terms of those structures which have been put in you in the beginning. Thomas Mann comes the other way around one of the characteristics of protestantism I would say is that it rejects the ritual and…

…of protestantism I would say is that it rejects the ritual and mythological interpretation and accent in the religion. And so Mann comes gradually into a realization of the mythological depths and what they implied in all. This gave Joyce a kind of…

…all. This gave Joyce a kind of advantage there that he was a professional in mythological thinking right from infancy and Mann comes gradually into it and this makes the two of them an extraordinarily interesting pair to bring together. Thomas Mann's Magic…

…the two of them an extraordinarily interesting pair to bring together. Thomas Mann's Magic mountain is a work in which Mann is continually explaining the implication of his mythology. He gives you the image and then there's an interpretation that's given…

…thing. In purely empirical terms it's called participation, but it's more than that it's identification. So that's the first thing and Thomas Mann and Joyce are working on this all the way through and we're going to try to find out something about how…

…god for the mystery which is out beyond all that. Now what we've got to find is how the artist, how Joyce, how Mann, Particularly today Mann has broken through and rendered this mystery. One way is through the rhythms of their prose. This is a problem…

…mystery which is out beyond all that. Now what we've got to find is how the artist, how Joyce, how Mann, Particularly today Mann has broken through and rendered this mystery. One way is through the rhythms of their prose. This is a problem of poetry.…

…and ideal. I just want to give some main thoughts about that because it informs the writing, totally informs the writing of Thomas Mann and informed the operas of Wagner. It informs Joyce, as we'll see. This is a very important philosopher and he's put…

…the 19th century, 18 or so, we have this synthesis of the two philosophies, and so it became possible for writers like Mann and Joyce to take in the whole enrichment of the oriental understanding of transcendence and the maya aspect of phenomenality, how…

…and all that kind of garbage but that has nothing to do with the breakthrough of art and this is a problem that struck Mann and struck Joyce and for Mann it became quite crucial when Hitler came into Germany. He lost his aesthetic double vision and his…

…that has nothing to do with the breakthrough of art and this is a problem that struck Mann and struck Joyce and for Mann it became quite crucial when Hitler came into Germany. He lost his aesthetic double vision and his work declined and that took place…

…and his work declined and that took place between volumes three and four of the Joseph Novels in the 40s total transformation of Mann. So now to get closer to Mann, I've tried to give the kantian idea of the phenomenality in time and space, the will…

…place between volumes three and four of the Joseph Novels in the 40s total transformation of Mann. So now to get closer to Mann, I've tried to give the kantian idea of the phenomenality in time and space, the will in nature as Schopenhauer stresses it…

…and is one of the great works of the 19th century is the birth of tragedy and this is a work that tremendously influenced Mann, even deeper than Mann knew, as you'll see in a little while. What he points out there is that in the Greek Tragedy the…

…the great works of the 19th century is the birth of tragedy and this is a work that tremendously influenced Mann, even deeper than Mann knew, as you'll see in a little while. What he points out there is that in the Greek Tragedy the two aspects are…

…to new generations of thinkers, but to some of the greatest artists of the past century. In the next program Joe will explore how these ideas would influence the myth making work of authors such as t Eliot S, James Joyce and in particular, Thomas Mann.

…from the life of Christ and the teachings of the Ramakrishna to saint Paul and Bernard of Clairvaux, and William Blake, Thomas Mann and many others for whom love was the controlling principle of art. Campbell thought the greatest love stories were told in…

…I think of James Joyce as such a revealer of the mysteries of growing up and becoming a human being, and for me he and Thomas Mann were my principal gurus you might say, as I was trying to shape my own life, I think in the visual arts there were…

…him. Artists knew all these things long ago. It's wonderful to read Thomas Mann's Paper on Freud and the future. Somebody invited Thomas Mann to give the talk at the party for Freud's 80th birthday. Well who in his right mind would invite an artist to…

…party for Freud's 80th birthday. Well who in his right mind would invite an artist to talk about anybody but himself? So what Mann really did was talk about himself and he said: the wonderful thing about Freud was that never having read any of the great…