…we engage with systems. And indeed, you've drawn on one of the, when I say great systems thinkers and pioneers in the space, Donella Meadows. I mean as much because of the way she could relate it to people. And for those who don't know, her 12 leverage…

…spheres of transformation. And I was very touched also by how you bring in the leverage points in a system. and how Donella Meadows described those. So I wonder whether you could just introduce us to those spheres, because I think it would be helpful and…

…sphere but that we're always all of them you know that we are showing up as as holes in this. And if you know Donella Meadows' seminal paper on leverage points, places to intervene in a system that was published in 1999, or it came out of a conference…

…donella. Janis Rekis, SRA22 Panellist, Sorry, a little technical problem. So again, the three spheres of transformation remind me of Donella Meadows 12 leverage points to intervene in a system. Janis Rekis, Meadows includes a hierarchy of the power of her…

…day. And when you start to look at systems change, you start to see like, you know, I don't know, you know, Donella Meadows, who wrote a seminal paper on leverage points or places to intervene in a system. And the highest leverage points she identifies…

…of transformation so how do we do that If we look at systems change, probably most of you are familiar with Donella Meadows, Places to Intervene in a System, Leverage Points for Systems Change. The three spheres map out quite well onto her different…