Psychedelic Safety plus Borges and McKenna

Summary

The transcript consists of two linked sections from a psychedelic podcast, framed by host Lorenzo’s return after a three-week break and his thanks to listeners who donated or purchased his novel, The Genesis Generation. He opens in a casual, self-deprecating tone, explaining that he had been resting, reading, and “goofing off,” but is now refreshed and ready to continue producing the show. He also thanks several supporters by name and promises continued podcasting through at least the end of 2013. The first major segment introduces an informal question-and-answer session led by Ann Shulgin at the 2001 Entheobotany conference in Palenque, Mexico. Lorenzo explains that the recording was made under difficult conditions and that some audience comments and even some of his own remarks had to be edited out because they were unclear. The discussion centers on psychedelic safety, underground therapeutic work, and practical harm reduction. A key warning concerns deprenil, described as a daily supplement or MAO-inhibiting “smart drug” that appeared to dramatically intensify and prolong psychedelic effects, especially with a short-acting psychedelic and with 2C-T-7. Ann Shulgin and Sasha Shulgin conclude that people using psychedelics should avoid deprenil for at least five days, and preferably seven, before experimenting. The conversation emphasizes that this information should be shared widely on psychedelic information sites because the combination can produce very unpleasant and potentially dangerous experiences. The discussion then turns to the problem of finding psychedelic-assisted therapy in an underground and legally risky environment. Ann Shulgin and others note that because psychedelic therapy and MDMA-assisted work remain felonies, both clients and therapists must proceed slowly and cautiously. Suggestions include building trust over months of conventional therapy, avoiding direct naming of illegal substances when speaking with a therapist, and considering longer-than-usual sessions if a therapist is open to the idea. Participants also discuss the difficulty of locating trustworthy therapists, especially for people who have moved to new places and lack a local support network. Several voices argue that small, serious peer groups or “lay therapist” circles may be more realistic and sustainable than searching for a formal underground therapist. Hypnotherapy is also proposed as a legal and potentially equivalent alternative for accessing similar psychological material. Ketamine becomes a major topic in the first talk. Ann Shulgin expresses strong caution, calling it dangerous and citing long-lasting harm from chronic use, especially when injected frequently. She contrasts this with some positive personal and therapeutic experiences, including work with a difficult patient and a psychiatrist who used ketamine for spiritual rather than psychological aims. Other speakers add that ketamine can alter the sense of time and may be less harmful when not injected, but the overall tone remains wary. The segment closes with a discussion of other legal or semi-legal psychedelics, including a mention of methyl-j, which one participant found similar to MDMA but shorter and smoother. Lorenzo then notes that the tape cut off and briefly references the Palenque experiment report and Casey Hardison, who wrote about it and is described as imprisoned in the UK. The second major segment features a talk by Dr. William Rowlandson at the University of Kent in the UK, titled “Borges and McKenna: Iconoclasm, boundary dissolution and living symbolically.” Rowlandson frames his talk around the relationship between Jorge Luis Borges and Terence McKenna, arguing that both thinkers share a fascination with paradox, mystery, symbolic reality, and the limits of understanding. He describes his own intellectual path through Borges, McKenna, and Tom Robbins, and says that Borges has been as culture-shaping for him as LSD might be for others. His central claim is that both Borges and McKenna treat the world as fundamentally riddling and resistant to final explanation. Rowlandson emphasizes several recurring themes in McKenna’s and Borges’s work: the rejection of dogma, the value of amazement and uncertainty, and the importance of direct experience over rigid belief systems. He argues that culture functions as a boundary-making system, while psychedelics dissolve boundaries between self and environment, past and future, and person and world. He links this to McKenna’s idea that psychedelics should contribute to a moral community rather than merely create a new cult. He also draws on Borges’s view that dreams, imagination, and literature are as real and formative as ordinary empirical life. In this symbolic framework, psychedelic experiences are not limited to a few hours; they can alter a person’s entire life perspective. The talk further connects psychedelics with Jungian synchronicity, mysticism, and visionary traditions such as Swedenborg’s angelic journeys and DMT entity encounters described by Rick Strassman. Rowlandson suggests that a true “psychedelic society” would not be one where everyone is intoxicated, but one that values and interprets these experiences seriously. He closes by tying this to drug policy, arguing that prohibition devalues meaningful experiences and prevents society from learning from them. Lorenzo ends by reflecting on how William Rowlandson’s talk deepened his appreciation of Terence McKenna, and he mentions an earlier podcast featuring McKenna and Tom Robbins. He closes with promotional notes about the podcast’s Creative Commons license and his novel, then signs off from “psychedelic space.”