…he covered an awful lot of ground. My connection was secondhand to him because my mentor was a guy by the name of Nick Schwallis, who was my brother in law, and he was a research psychiatrist that University of Saskatchewan. And at the time, they were…

…group on Schizophrenia. That was the name of their project, and that was Hoffer and Osmandhenne. And then my brother in law Nick show Allison and his partner, Duncan Blewett. And I had my first experience there with them in 1959, before any of you…

…you. I mean, I had a family of christians, and they were all cruel. And so I wasn't about to look at it, you know? But, Nick, every hour or so, pass it to me again. I'm not ready for that. And so finally, thank God, I looked at it, and it was…