…fever lightning strike hunger prolonged drumming grief you know all of these ways then there is a transition of level or what Marseilliat in this wonderful phrase called the rupture of plane the rupture of the mundane plane isn't that a great you'd almost…

…and encloses human history. This is what shamanism is about. Shamanism is where people step out of cultural time into what Marseilliat called ineliotes, the time before the sacred time, the paradigmatic time, dream time, we call it down here. It's the time…

…you explain loosely on that? Well, I, when it comes to talking in anthropological terms about shamanism, I just follow Marseilliat. I think, you know, he wrote Shamanism, the Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy. those categories, except for his squeamishness about…