…Holcomb does. Holcomb requires a relationship between the consumer of the Holcomb. And I've spent time, I've argued with Bud Hopkins, I've had lunch with Whitley Strieber, I've argued vociferously with John Mack, and these people are second-class thinkers. You…

…it. You cannot understand it by consuming it from the media. Because all these people that you hear about, Jacques Vallée and Bud Hopkins, and John Mack, the gods of this, do you think they would stand out if they were sitting here in this room?…