…That dynamic process was not a concept that fit into their technology or philosophy at that time very well. So the ideas idea of Plato is a slide collection, not a movie collection. So when the wheel came in cycle as far as cycle of different states in…

…the most holiest chamber of the temple, the terrestrium. Not one of the multitude that were initiated ever divulged. Pausanias, Plato, Roman emperors like Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius and many others known figures of antiquity were part to this initiation. It…

…you what I think it is but it's not really based on physiology or pharmacology it's based on carefully looking at the experience. Plato said time is the moving image of eternity and I think that what these psychedelics do is they actually do connect you…

…arcane form of mathematical anxiety and it's based on the conception of mathematics I mean it hasn't advanced past the time of Plato, because your objection to models for chaos is based on inappropriate view of this platonic ideals. There are too many of…

…into existence by a process of evolution and discovery and I don't think it would be at all appropriate to suggest that Plato or anyone before the invention of the computer could even imagine these you see so it's part of the evolutionary, the creative…

…like a supercharged thought process that's the syntax of its logic is closer to poesis and poesis and a poetic process like Plato would his kind of thoughts than it is. You know so know so would you talk about the relationship where rationality kicks…

…the trade school and the trade union. There would be maybe some spiritual elite, some professors of moral philosophy. We would have Plato and Socrates would be leading a workshop, something like that. Then I could see that it fits in this. But somehow…

…this is, I think a really important aspect of the peculiarity of our culture, that back in those neoplatonic times we had Plato and aristotle. They argued they had completely different like one is North south, the other is East west or something. Together…

…these things that kind of manifest themselves in a very specific way. Well, no, that no one has stepped from the mortal coil. Yes, Plato said time is the moving image of eternity, and so eternity is outside the wheel, and that is what I mean by this…

…hallucination, which I am I mean if it doesn't do that I'm not interested. And then I thought the way into it is Plato talks about the good, the true and the beautiful, but the key concept is beautiful, because good it's abstract. True it's abstract,…

…city in the ancient world most especially the ideal city of Plato's Republic. So casually we might call that utopian fantasy. Although Plato did try to actually realize it in the political organization of a particular city, he ended up in jail for that…

…good reason for this but had you been there I'm sure you would understand completely. And now back to Terrence. I'm back to Plato to say that if man, if god did not exist human beings would create god. We are creating god. Our cultural machinery, our…

…the temperature of the planet earth, or it's regularly changing in a circle, a divine mathematical form according to Plato as the planets were supposed to move before Kepler, who introduced the ellipse. Fantastic transformation, punctual catastrophe in the…

…the, the appetition is for beauty, to my mind and this is another place where the platonism shines radiantly through you know because Plato held that the good was the true and that both were the beautiful and this is a very quaint idea from the point…

…language as well. Certainly mathematics preceded writing, and in mathematics we have, for example a circle, a line I mean these are for Plato, the ideal ideals. So do we need writing on stone to think of a line or a circle or a triangle as being…

…of someone who brings to the idea a complete cosmological model generated in the past ten years by themselves alone? They never read Plato, they know no mathematics, they never read the Bible they just got it all in one download. And it is on the Face…

…this and the traditional doctrine of the world soul is that in the traditional doctrine of the world soul of Plotinus and of Plato they had a three fold system where there was the intellect, with the intelligence, which was really the realm of forms or…

…would want to stay away from that in the John Stuart Mill tradition but I think we're going to have to go back to Plato. Plato did not trust the poets, and the heirs of the poets in our hell bardo are Madison Avenue because you know images are…

…would want to stay away from that in the John Stuart Mill tradition but I think we're going to have to go back to Plato. Plato did not trust the poets, and the heirs of the poets in our hell bardo are Madison Avenue because you know images are being…

…very interested that you start your description of the imagination from the cosmic attractor which sounds to me like a combination of Plato, Thomas Taylor and Teilhard De Chardin. It's the idea of the omega point in Teilhard De Chardin as the attractor of…

…picture, you know. So the now is kind of like the edge of the pencil as it. Moves over the image. Yes. Well, what did Plato say? That the present is the moving image of eternity. That's pure good platonism. Well, you can think of it as a, you can…

…the spirit and the human unconscious. This is the great tension that illuminates greek civilization. I mean, it's all, take Plato as an example, because here in one thinker, these distinct strains of thought, these antithetical strains of thought, are…

…past, looking for a stable model. And finally they reached the golden age of periclean Athens. And there they found Plato, Aristotle, the dramatists so forth, and they created classicism. Now notice that we're talking here about the 14 hundreds. Classicism…

…we're talking here about the 14 hundreds. Classicism was brought to birth in the 14 hundreds 2000 years after the death of Plato. And we are still to a tremendous degree, we are the children of this classical revival which we call the Renaissance. Our…

…to be expressed here. First of all, something about God, that God knows that God exists in a superior state of intellection. Plato said, time is the moving image of eternity. My notion of God's cognition is simply the regarding of all points in the…

…what I think it is, but it's not really based on physiology or pharmacology. It's based on carefully looking at the experience. Plato said time is the moving image of eternity. And I think that what these psychedelics do is they actually do connect you…

…cannot do anything about. So I think these drugs anticipate this because I think that time is the moving image of eternity, as Plato said, and these drugs place you outside of time. Now, the mechanism of how that's done, you can invoke Bell's theorem or…

…place called Eleusis. And you well know the licinian mysteries for hundreds and hundreds of years were practiced there. Plato, Aristotle, most of those great philosophers went through the mysteries there. And recently drug ethologists and scholars like Robert…

…All information is everywhere. Information that is not here, is nowhere. And that information stands outside of historical time. It's like Plato said, time is the moving image of eternity. Eternity, it does not have a temporal existence, even the kind of…

…we can release this thing once again. I mean, the logos can be unleashed once again, and the voice that spoke to Plato and parmenides and Heraclitus, that voice can speak again in the minds of modern people. And when it does, the alienation will…

…matter how much agony it causes individuals. Yeah, well, last night what I said was that I was a platonist and that Plato felt that the world was approached through three the good, the true and the beautiful, but that goodness is controversial and truth…

…to have to be a huge downward movement of the wave into novelty. At the time of the greek rebirth, at the time of Plato, Socrates, those people, again, there's obviously going to have to be a huge surge into novelty at the time of the Renaissance and…

…creation of the moment is, it's in the process of obviating and denying it and seeking to go beyond it. And I think it was Plato, I'm not sure he said it first, but said, if God does not exist, human beings will create God. Well, I think the truth…

…And what we are really capable of. And I'm not afraid of this at all. Because I think. Well, basically, I'm a platonist. And Plato identified the good and the true and the beautiful as the same thing. But notice, it's very hard to know what is good.…

…I don't know exactly what to do about that. If you go back to the roots of western civilization and read Plato's republic. Plato was very suspicious of the poets and did not think those people should be just allowed to run untrammeled over the landscape.…

…past, looking for a stable model. And finally they reached the golden age of Periclean Athens. And there they found Plato, Aristotle, the dramatists, so forth, and they created classicism. Now notice that we're talking here about the 14 hundreds. Classicism…

…we're talking here about the 14 hundreds. Classicism was brought to birth in the 14 hundreds 2000 years after the death of Plato. And we are still to a tremendous degree, we are the children of this classical revival, which we call the Renaissance. Our…

…dimensional medium which is composed of energy and language, and into which we can all cast ourselves at will. It is, you know, Plato said, if God didn't exist, man would invent him her. It. Well, it may well be that the pilot's seat, the pilot's chair…

…should give a universal education to everybody. And they discovered that if you do that, if you take everybody and make them read Plato and John Stuart mill and Voltaire and Hobbes, as we did, that you can't rule such people. They take it too seriously.…

…means we're inventing omnipotence. We who began as the mud of a warm pond a billion years ago actually dream of a deity. And Plato was on to this game 2500 years ago. He said, if God does not exist, man will invent him. In the post humanist manifesto,…

…life, so you never got a second shot. And everybody in the greek world would go at some point in their life, Plato, Aeschylus, Aristotle, the whole gang, everybody had this experience. And at the center of it. Something was drunk and something happened.…

…mind, according to my understanding of some of the platonic tradition, neoplatonic thought, this has to do with the divided mind in Plato. Well, you raise an important point. It further complicates the picture. But it's how it was, folks. And that is the…

…was, folks. And that is the reference here is to neoplatonism, which is a kind of parallel tradition to what we're talking about. Plato had at least a couple of phases in the evolution of his. The young Plato is a rational thinker. But the later Plato,…

…parallel tradition to what we're talking about. Plato had at least a couple of phases in the evolution of his. The young Plato is a rational thinker. But the later Plato, apparently after he fell under the influence of pythagorean schools, becomes a full…

…had at least a couple of phases in the evolution of his. The young Plato is a rational thinker. But the later Plato, apparently after he fell under the influence of pythagorean schools, becomes a full blown mystic. And then in the late Roman Empire,…

…pythagorean schools, becomes a full blown mystic. And then in the late Roman Empire, now this is almost a thousand years after Plato. We have to remember in our minds, all these people get squeezed together like they could all have dinner together. But,…

…of thought before the 1460s. And the importance of hermetic thinking can be seen by the fact that Gemistus Pletho brought Plato to the florentine council, as well as her Hermes trismegistos. And when Marcello Facino sat down to do this translation work,…

…de Medici said, plato can wait, I'm getting old. You do the hermetic corpus first. That's much more important. We'll sort out this Plato business in a few years. And so it was done. And the complete, it was completed in 1493. And in 1494, Cosimo died.…

…it was done. And the complete, it was completed in 1493. And in 1494, Cosimo died. So he never saw the translations of Plato, but felt that the corpus Hermeticum was more important. Just I mention this to show you the importance that was attached to…

…a voice which will tell you. And all the great thinkers of this Greco Hellenistic period sought and cultivated the Logos. Plato had his demon. Everyone sought the informing voice of the nOose. ThAt's what it's called in neoplatonism. And then in…

…Renaissance steadied itself in the face of the inevitability of modern times was by harking back to Greek and Rome and translating Plato and the dramatists and trying to realize the ideals of greek aesthetics and roman law. What we are trying to do in…

…night? A golden ring? Well, the wave is eternity as a golden wave. It's that all time is a standing wave in eternity. Plato said this. He said, time is the moving image of eternity. Means that eternity is some kind of higher dimensional object. And the…

…the logos. And the logos was an informing voice, a voice in the head that told you the right way to live. And Plato and all of these heavies cultivated and achieved connection with the logos. Well, there was an Alexandrine jew named Philo Judeus who was…

…to me to be, in that sense, trans temporal. It is an anticipation of the future. It's as though Plato's metaphor were true. Plato said, time is the moving image of eternity. The tryptamine state is as though you step out of the moving image and into…

…that gives permission for all the memes to compete. I mean, democracy is very close to the heart of any anarchist. You know, Plato said, you can always democracy when you approach them from the sea, because unchained dogs run on the wharf. Well, what he…

…All information is everywhere. Information that is not here is nowhere. And that information stands outside of historical time. It's like Plato said, time is the moving image of eternity. Eternity, it does not have a temporal existence, even the kind of…

…we can release this thing once again. I mean, the logos can be unleashed once again, and the voice that spoke to Plato and Parmenides and Heraclitus, that voice can speak again in the minds of modern people. And when it does, the alienation will…

…outside the cultural illusion. It's a breathtaking possibility because nobody knows what's outside the cultural illusion. I mean, you know, Plato got it right. We are chained in a cave watching the flickering shadows of something. But life taken with…

…there is something called the nunc stans, the eternal now, and that somehow, well, this all goes back to this wonderful thing which Plato said. Plato said time is the moving image of eternity. And my notion of what this is all about is that the time…

…is something called the nunc stans, the eternal now, and that somehow, well, this all goes back to this wonderful thing which Plato said. Plato said time is the moving image of eternity. And my notion of what this is all about is that the time wave we…

…Of the 53 texts, 41 were unknown. In any other version. Of those that were known, there was some of the late Plato, there was portions of Matthew. But what was interesting were these previously unknown texts, some of which were very close to gospel…

…on ancient philosophy, these books by Maclean, the myth of invariance is one of them. It's a study of mathematics in Plato and the Rick Vedic. And it's all musical mathematics. They were studying portion harmony relationship. Now, notice that in this…

…a rich field of human study called philosophy of science or theory, epistemology and ontology. How do we know what is real? But Plato, who all the rest of philosophy is a footnote upon. Plato, said that the key layde in the concepts the good, the true…

…theory, epistemology and ontology. How do we know what is real? But Plato, who all the rest of philosophy is a footnote upon. Plato, said that the key layde in the concepts the good, the true and the beautiful. The good, what is it? Tricky, tricky,…

…your mystical insight beyond the personal, you probably enter into the domain of inflation, of some kind of psychological inflation. So is Plato inflated? Was Plato inflated? No, probably not. But he probably gets a pass as some kind of pioneer. You get to…

…beyond the personal, you probably enter into the domain of inflation, of some kind of psychological inflation. So is Plato inflated? Was Plato inflated? No, probably not. But he probably gets a pass as some kind of pioneer. You get to start out by talking…

…and various hysterias and seeping ideas into highly tuned nervous systems. How does it do that? Well, it's as though, like Plato said, time is the moving image of eternity. It does it because in its dimension, all these things are somehow coexistent…

…cannot do anything about. So I think these drugs anticipate this because I think that time is the moving image of eternity, as Plato said. And these drugs place you outside of time. Now, the mechanism of how that's done, you can invoke Bell's theorem or…

…there's a steep episode, steep descent into novelty on the slope of this thing. At the Greek Renaissance, the Renaissance that included Plato, and this is not, let me say, Indo european specific. At the very same moment that Plato was teaching in Athens,…

…Renaissance, the Renaissance that included Plato, and this is not, let me say, Indo european specific. At the very same moment that Plato was teaching in Athens, Ezekiel was active in Israel, Mencius and Lao Tzu were active in China. This was a moment of…

…here's a beautiful shot of history's fractal mountain, remember? And now you see it not as Minoan Crete falling to mycenaean piracy with Plato here and Jesus here, and the fall of Rome here. But you see it as 1967 up here and the present down here.…

…one can clear themselves of the momentum of past presupposition, the transcendental object at the end of time actually comes into view. Plato said time is the moving image of eternity. The way I think of shamanism and psychedelic voyaging is that it is…

…this is. Yeah. I have two questions. One, are you aware of any psychedelics being used in ancient Greece around the time of Plato or Aristotle? Sure. You should read the road to Eleusis by Wassen and Hoffman that argues very persuasively that an LSD like…

…people were building. And the painting styles and the colors and the techniques are very clearly the same. Read Mary Cetgast, Plato, prehistorian, or James Meillart's book, Chatalja Yuk, a neolithic town in Anatolia. And you see, you know that even a kind…

…wrote about what he called the more perfect logos. The logos was an informing voice that hellenistic spiritualism took very seriously. And Plato had a demon, and it was an informing voice. But Philo Judeus said, what would be the more perfect logos? And…

…like we're supposed to believe that Heidegger is. Somehow has a deeper insight into reality than. I don't know. I wouldn't say Plato. I don't think there's been progress there. Who? What? No, I said, please don't. It was a bad example. The psychedelic…

…drawn from democracy, an atomism. In other words, they are thoroughgoing materialists. Their social theory is drawn from epictetus and Plato. They are, in fact, extremely modern people by our own standards. However, among the gardeners and kitchen help and…

…us to the future? Yes, I think so. I mean, I'm basically, on this issue, fairly platonic. I mean, I think that, you know, Plato said time is the moving image of eternity, and that, I think, is probably true, that the. That eternity is all time and…

…the Logos. And the logos was an informing voice, a voice in the head that told you the right way to live. And Plato and all of these heavies cultivated and achieved connection with the Logos. Well, there was an Alexandrine Jew named Philo Judeus who was…

…really, you know, as Ahab tells the crew in Moby Dick, this is what you've shipped for mates. This was the plan. You know, Plato said, if God does not exist, man will create such a thing. And we are creating a simulacrum of our highest hopes. And the…

…not who you are now. The soul is who you are and will be and have been. So it's yourself extended in time. You know, Plato said time is the moving image of eternity. And what we were doing last night, in a way, was looking at snapshots of that…

…psychedelic eternity, an information stasis, a kind of standing wave hologram. That is the now. I mean, I believe the poster says, Plato says time is the moving image of eternity. Because we talked about that last time. Julian Janes, who was a psychologist…

…and flow with the transformation that is upon us, or to create it if it is reluctant to appear on schedule. You know, Plato said if God didn't exist, man would invent him. Well, the western idea of God entails the idea of his entry into history…

…women have of moving their agenda forward. And I don't know how you do anything about this. It's a very difficult problem. Plato, you know. Well, violence without violence to women is like a circus without lions. Violence is a code word. I for violence…

…humanity is awaiting us and cheering us on, lending their weight. They're all out there, you know, Proclus and Plotinus and Plato and hypatia and Henry Cornelius Agrippa and John Dee and Robert Flood and Eliaphus Levy, they're all out there pulling for…

…is obviously, you know, a grab tailor and attacks skate and a jerk. And you say to them, well, you know, have you read Plato or have you studied Nagarjuna? Do you know what Moses mammonides has to say about this? And why do you follow this guy? He…

…want me to tell them this stuff and because I guess this is better than sitting home on a Saturday afternoon and reading. But Plato said it a lot better than I'm saying it, and so did a lot of other people. Civilization is a vast storehouse of wisdom.…

…to silence. And literally everyone who was anyone went to Eleusis to experience the mysteries. I mean, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato, Aeschylus, Euripides, everybody. People would make journeys of thousands of miles. It was the wellspring of greek spirituality.…

…black culture and everything was derivative of it right up until, I don't know, the byzantine empire or something. I mean, Plato freely acknowledged his debt to this stuff. It was just that it was unswallowable to late european culture. Oh, yeah, they…

…of fluff that freaks me out is where you get one person who never read the Old Testament, never read Plato, doesnt understand mathematics, music, history, art, literature, religion, economics or philosophy. But they have all the answers. Because when they…

…Syria and bring back these manuscripts. And they established a translation commission, and they had in manuscript the works of Plato, the works of Hermes, Trismegistus, bunch of ancient literature. And to show you what the psychology of the Renaissance was,…

…of Hermes, Trismegistus, bunch of ancient literature. And to show you what the psychology of the Renaissance was, here they had Plato, which they hadn't been able to read for a thousand years, sitting there waiting for translation. And the Cosimo de Medici…

…able to read for a thousand years, sitting there waiting for translation. And the Cosimo de Medici said to Marcello Facino, Plato can wait. Translate the hermetic corpus first. And so it was done. If you're interested in Renaissance hermeticism, you can't…

…which is a group of philosophers in the third and fourth century, Plotinus, Porphyry, Proclus, and that crowd. And they took Plato, the late Plato, and contorted that into a mystical doctrine of emanation. They were what are called emanationists. What this…

…group of philosophers in the third and fourth century, Plotinus, Porphyry, Proclus, and that crowd. And they took Plato, the late Plato, and contorted that into a mystical doctrine of emanation. They were what are called emanationists. What this means is you…

…in perception and through technology, shamanically directed and aesthetically critiqued and inspired, I think we will go to it. I think Plato was right. The good and the true are the beautiful. And that beauty, simply the pursuit of beauty with no moral…

…you know, read the 10th book of the republic, the myth of error. Do any of you recall what's going on there? This is Plato. He's at this banquet, and then the conversation takes this sudden left turn, and he tells this story about this guy ur, who was…

…everything and yet nowhere in the world of philosophical discourse is there any genuflection at least overtly made to this maybe not, since Plato talked about shadows on the wall of the cave and so forth and so on well so what can psychedelics and the…