…indeed, is there an aspect of it that we haven't touched on so far? Well, I think if we go back to Danella Meadows' leverage points, often we talk about paradigms as being a powerful leverage point, but that's number 11. The most powerful leverage point…

…very much agree that that rigidity of like, if we're just looking at these measurements and that's, it's, it is what Danella Meadows says is like, it's often, it's, it's, we're putting so much attention onto those parameters and numbers, but we're often…

…know, our challenge then is to actually take them all together. And if you've heard of the leverage points for systems change, Danella Meadows' seminal paper in 1999 on places to intervene in systems, which has had a very, you know, it's gotten a lot of…

…change and their own role in it, is through one small change experiment. And in the middle of telling them about, oh, Danella Meadows and social practice theory and all of... just do one small change for 30 days and reflect on it. And start to…