David Graeber and David Harvey discuss their new books, Debt: The First 5000 Years, and Rebel Cities, respectively
Summary
The transcript is a political-theory discussion about horizontality, hierarchy, and how movements can build dual power without being absorbed by the state or capitalism. It compares models from the Zapatistas, El Alto, Argentina, and Occupy, while emphasizing labor organizing, immigrant power, and disrupting capitalist flows through strategic direct action.
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