Damer and McKenna Discuss Covid-19

Summary

The conversation is a tribute to Terence McKenna, framed by Lorenzo Hagerty’s introduction and Bruce Dahmer’s reflections on McKenna’s legacy, the early days of the Psychedelic Salon, and the continuing relevance of McKenna’s ideas during the covid19 era. The discussion begins with context about wildfires in Northern California, the evacuation of Ancient Oaks farm, and the postponement of a Levity Zone program. From there, the speakers honor Bruce Dahmer’s role in helping launch the Salon by connecting Lorenzo with Ralph Abraham’s trialogue tapes, establishing the archival and conversational lineage that made the program possible. A major portion of the exchange revisits McKenna’s fascination with cyberspace, virtual worlds, and the possibility that digital environments could convey something akin to psychedelic experience. Bruce describes introducing McKenna to avatars and early 3D virtual worlds in the late 1990s, including the “alchemical virtual pow wow” in Active Worlds and the later Hawaii gathering that became a notable online artifact. McKenna’s reaction to embodied digital presence is presented as a genuine revelation, and the conversation explores whether cyberspace could function as a kind of altered state or even a substitute for psychedelics. The speakers connect this to McKenna’s broader interests in novelty, machine intelligence, the eschaton, and singularity narratives. The tribute also addresses McKenna’s illness and death, recalling the period when he appeared visibly unwell, spoke of disturbing dreams, and later suffered a seizure. The narrative emphasizes the communal farewell that followed, involving friends and collaborators such as Alex Allison, Robert Vinoza, Martina, Tom Robbins, Constance Demby, and others. McKenna’s posthumous influence is highlighted through YouTube, archives, and the continued circulation of his talks, reinforcing the idea that his presence remains active in cultural memory. The discussion then shifts into a long speculative and philosophical exchange about covid19, leadership failure, and the role of Gaia. Bruce argues that the pandemic reveals the fragility of global systems and may function as a planetary corrective, reducing consumption, forcing social simplification, and exposing the incompetence of current leadership. He frames the crisis as part of a larger evolutionary and ecological process in which human society is pushed toward homeostasis. This includes a critique of consumerism, overpopulation, retail excess, supply chains, and the environmental costs of modern life. The speakers suggest that communal living, shared resources, local food production, and reduced material demand may become more viable and more humane social forms. A related theme is the rise of new power structures rooted in Silicon Valley, venture capital, social networks, and digital culture. Bruce argues that hackers, hippies, and hipsters are helping build the infrastructure of a new society, one that values transparency, collaboration, and technological creativity. He links this to the spread of psychedelics into mainstream culture and to a broader shift away from devaluing nature under Abrahamic and industrial paradigms. The conversation repeatedly returns to compassion, empathy, and the need to rehumanize social systems. Another major thread concerns the “human OS,” trauma, and healing. The speakers discuss how early life experiences shape adult behavior, how Donald Trump can be understood through wounded-child psychology, and how practices such as plant medicines, vipassana, breathwork, Wim Hof methods, diet, and energy healing may help create healthier, more compassionate people. This is presented as a practical project for the 2020s and beyond: to build generations of wiser, less triggered human beings. The final section turns to Bruce’s scientific work on the origin of life. He explains how his research moved from computational modeling to chemistry, focusing on wet-dry cycling, hot spring pools, and protocell formation. He describes a “cosmic wiggle” as a key principle of novelty and collaboration in the emergence of life, and connects this to the progenote, morphogenetic fields, and the possibility that life began as a communal network rather than isolated competitors. This scientific work is framed as a continuation of McKenna’s questions, fulfilling McKenna’s request to “keep telling the story” while also telling one’s own. The closing sentiment is one of gratitude, resilience, and commitment: despite pandemics, fires, political dysfunction, and ecological strain, the human experiment can continue and may even expand into the cosmos.