…have been test to trace, you know, all of this stuff. And then the other, on the other hand, there's all this analysis of Trump as, you know, as a fascist, you know, and it seems like an actually authoritarian leader If that was the big problem with…

…as, you know, as a fascist, you know, and it seems like an actually authoritarian leader If that was the big problem with Trump, if the big problem with Trump wasn't just that he was doing what Romney would have done if he was president, deregulating…

…know, and it seems like an actually authoritarian leader If that was the big problem with Trump, if the big problem with Trump wasn't just that he was doing what Romney would have done if he was president, deregulating appointed judges who would overturn…

…Romney would have done if he was president, deregulating appointed judges who would overturn abortion. But if the big problem with Trump is that he was this radical new authoritarian break, that's very confusing how he responded to the pandemic because you'd…

…it. Because in Slovenia, the present right-wing government is trying to do this. Although at the beginning they were following Trump and proclaiming the threat of pandemic is a leftist exaggeration to impose socialist dictatorship. Now they turn around the…

…leftists are against vaccination to prevent the operative ability of the government and so on. But don't you think the problem with Trump is this one, that a strong that he's real okay he had many bases which he represented there were there were many…

…as interesting all that and it's very difficult to get that American type of populism into a proper authoritarian fascist frame. What Trump was doing would have been unacceptable for a true fascist, I think. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not sure. Andrew, it's your…

…look up. We've all seen. Yeah, yeah. I'd like to know your thoughts on that. I practically assume that the target are these Trump deniers and so on. No, it's much more subtle. The president, Meryl Streep, she is seen, you remember in one photo in the…

…of her critics, I didn't agree with them because they said, no, Biden, capital, blah, blah, he will even worse or the same as Trump. You know what is the problem? Here I agree with my enemy, haha, Chomsky, who said we don't have time to wait for some…

…for example. When it comes to the Biden administration, because there are things I would agree with you, he's doing, say, better than Trump, right, when it comes to the environment. But how does the left in the modern era still combat with the fact that…

…is this one that we already don't have it. Look again what happened with the pandemic. What neoliberalism? I know Trump was cheating. Much money went only to companies. But nonetheless, state intervened, printing trillions of money, and so on. It…

…and it's exploding a strike and so on and so on. I don't know how it is with you, but even in my, as Donald Trump would have put it, shithole of a country, Slovenia, although his wife was from here, it was so interesting that you know who dares to…

…people systematically vote against their own, if you put them in a primitive way, against their own interests. Look what happened under Trump with middle classes. They were the big supporters of Trump and economically they were the big losers and so on. So…

…primitive way, against their own interests. Look what happened under Trump with middle classes. They were the big supporters of Trump and economically they were the big losers and so on. So although I don't underestimate talking about real economic interests,…

…So the first of these two quotes I want to read you is from AOC answering a question about the 2016 election, about Trump winning in 2016. And here's what she said then. Social instability is a direct result of wealth inequality. and bigotry is largely…

…of sort of misdirected anger about wealth and equality. Yeah, sure, sure. Okay, now the second quote is from AOC talking about the Trump vote. I mean, obviously he lost the election, but like the larger Trump in 2020, right? So this is four years later.…

…Okay, now the second quote is from AOC talking about the Trump vote. I mean, obviously he lost the election, but like the larger Trump in 2020, right? So this is four years later. And she says, but... We know that race is a problem and avoiding it is…

…polls. and the interviewer asked her, is there anything from Tuesday that surprised you? And she says, the share of white support for Trump, I thought the polling was off, but just seeing it, there was the feeling of realizing what work we have to do.…

…people and that they're sort of good socialist solutions to. And the second one is... all about how people are just voting for Trump because they're too racist and we need to just somehow or another work out the racism in their heads. In other words,…

…a situation which is very worry, I think. Yeah, so I mean, I think that in the case of racism and, you know, and Trump voters, which, you know, to be absolutely clear, like, I mean, of course, you know, I mean, of course, Trump was appealing to racism…

…you know, and Trump voters, which, you know, to be absolutely clear, like, I mean, of course, you know, I mean, of course, Trump was appealing to racism quite a bit, you know, in the... At the same time, he makes knowledge. Did you know somebody else…

…interests. Isn't an old leftist thesis that the triumph of ideology is that these famous mid-lower classes, whatever, by voting Trump, they are systematically voting against their interests. At the end, they are the big losers. of the transformation of the…

…I mean, then. So, sorry, before we get the anecdotes, Slavoj, can I just say, I wanted to, you know, on the point about the Trump voters, all I was going to say is that I think the problem with, you know, with focusing on, you know, the bigotry is…

…in a way. For me, If you ask me for one scene, image even, which defines the last years was, you remember, Trump inauguration. Bernie sitting alone there in a corner. Yes, I should say... This became the iconic image, overshadowing all those stupid poetry…

…of China into North Korea and so on. But I'm not just blaming China or Putin. You know where Biden totally follows Trump and goes even further in his boycott of China, in his... anti-Chinese policy. In what sense? I think a very simple analysis.…

…it will be the same emotional as it were blackmail. They will say, yes, Biden didn't do it all. But listen, do you want Trump back? And we will be blackmailed into a gameplay. And I'm aware of this. That's why you remember I was almost cursed by…

…want Trump back? And we will be blackmailed into a gameplay. And I'm aware of this. That's why you remember I was almost cursed by Trump. Chomsky and all of them when I said maybe it's better for the left for Trump to win I wouldn't say this again in…

…That's why you remember I was almost cursed by Trump. Chomsky and all of them when I said maybe it's better for the left for Trump to win I wouldn't say this again in 2024 because who knows I think that I'm much more of a pessimist in the sense that…

…are moving into new tribal societies where, like, isn't it clear that, and I agree here with you, isn't it clear that with Trump people, all these conspiracy theorists and so on and so on, It's nonsense to say we need a dialogue with them. No.…

…Julian Assange is evidence that there is an alignment when it comes to some of the most coercive, anti-free speech, fascistic elements that Trump had with Biden. And you've written in your book, how do you put it, that Biden is Trump with a nice face or…

…anti-free speech, fascistic elements that Trump had with Biden. And you've written in your book, how do you put it, that Biden is Trump with a nice face or something along those lines? I don't want to misquote you. No, no, I refer to that old ironic…

…when progressives in the 60s, 70s were calling for socialism with a human face. With a human face. And they say that Biden is Trump with a human face. Right. Would you agree? Now, I would say even the opposite, that... If we say, use the term human in…

…in the sense of all the vulgarity of everyday manners, when you relax, you get drunk, you are vulgar, it's almost that Trump is Biden with a human face. In Trump, you get all these dirty jokes, vulgarity. Biden is much more controlled. Everything is…

…manners, when you relax, you get drunk, you are vulgar, it's almost that Trump is Biden with a human face. In Trump, you get all these dirty jokes, vulgarity. Biden is much more controlled. Everything is controlled. He is... But, you know... Nonetheless,…

…dogmaticism because it got politicized around the issue of the election. So Democrats, Joe Biden came out very strongly saying, You know, Trump is doesn't you know, he doesn't he's not doing a good enough job. He doesn't do all the things he needs to…

…weren't effective in that. In fact, it might be harmful for you to use a mask. There was a focus from the Trump administration on treatments as opposed to just the vaccine. Obviously, the vaccine was in the works and everyone should remember that it…

…to just the vaccine. Obviously, the vaccine was in the works and everyone should remember that it was largely developed under the Trump administration. I mean, you have to. acknowledge that even though by the way at the time Kamala Harris was asked during…

…I mean, you have to. acknowledge that even though by the way at the time Kamala Harris was asked during the campaign if Donald Trump gets a vaccine will you take it and she said I don't know I don't trust anything coming out of Trump so you had…

…the campaign if Donald Trump gets a vaccine will you take it and she said I don't know I don't trust anything coming out of Trump so you had the same skepticism on the left that you did do now on the right of vaccines depending on who's seen as…

…left that you did do now on the right of vaccines depending on who's seen as being in charge of it you had the Trump administration focusing a lot on treatments before the vaccine. And every time they came up with something that, you know, there was a…

…with printing money, giving it for free, this strange distribution of money where the majority doesn't go to people like what Trump did, $2,000 per family or whatever. The majority goes to big companies which then it's not even a Keynesian operation. It's…

…studied everyday life and so on, and wrote a book, America Against America, where he... What he wrote there is today with Trump and so on more true than ever. He saw the creativity, but at the same time the decadent, self-destroying elements of the…

…come out and condemn with all my strength the authoritarianism of the Chinese Communist Party. But at the same time, folks, Trump started a new Cold War against China. It was his choice, his geostrategic and ideological choice. He even went against Apple…

…went against Apple for producing iPhones in Shenzhen. It was a Trumpian choice. I'm not saying that it's wrong because it was Trump, but I remind you that this was Trump's choice. Biden comes along and he adopts it completely and actually turbocharges it…

…invested. And their banking system, which they are not allowing Wall Street to take over. What the United States regime wants, from Trump to Biden, is to take over Chinese finance and Chinese big tech, while trying to sell lots of armaments to Australia,…

…thing. And the tragic thing, I cannot even imagine the consequences, is that the Israeli government is playing this game. Look at Trump. He was the model of this. He fully supported... Israeli expansionism. At the same time, he has openly flirted in the…

…master, almost I would say the real of a master, pure superego energy, sorry, pure superego entity returns. Wasn't Donald Trump this? An absolute obscene master, over-present. But we cannot, again, this is obviously an almost psychotic solution, we cannot…

…of who will get the middle ground vote, you know, this undecided upper classes or whatever. No, we should aim precisely at Trump voters. We should get them. All those impoverished white class people, there are also them, although I know many of them, they…

…there are also them, although I know many of them, they are fake workers, friends. They are billionaires. But many of Trump workers are confused, ordinary people. We have to approach them. There is no victory without getting over Trump voters. And that…

…billionaires. But many of Trump workers are confused, ordinary people. We have to approach them. There is no victory without getting over Trump voters. And that was my aim there. As you, Ben, put it very precisely, the... We should always forget, and this…

…very precisely, the... We should always forget, and this is what many leftists will never forgive me when I pointed out that, yes, Trump is a horror and so on, but Trump is a symptom of the failure of liberal democratic hegemony. In short term, yes, all…

…this is what many leftists will never forgive me when I pointed out that, yes, Trump is a horror and so on, but Trump is a symptom of the failure of liberal democratic hegemony. In short term, yes, all tactical alliances are necessary to block Trump and…

…but Trump is a symptom of the failure of liberal democratic hegemony. In short term, yes, all tactical alliances are necessary to block Trump and so on and so on, but And even now, okay, immediately I will stop. I just want to commit full suicide and…

…know what's my... Listen, I wrote a lot against Biden. I even used that phrase that I regret a little bit, Biden is just Trump with a human face. I think it's even the opposite up to a point, that Trump stands for some obscene, vulgar humanity. He's…

…I regret a little bit, Biden is just Trump with a human face. I think it's even the opposite up to a point, that Trump stands for some obscene, vulgar humanity. He's like, so maybe Trump is Biden with a human face in this sense, you know? Because if…

…face. I think it's even the opposite up to a point, that Trump stands for some obscene, vulgar humanity. He's like, so maybe Trump is Biden with a human face in this sense, you know? Because if Trump is a guy, you can immediately establish this vulgar,…

…for some obscene, vulgar humanity. He's like, so maybe Trump is Biden with a human face in this sense, you know? Because if Trump is a guy, you can immediately establish this vulgar, everyday, obscene humanity. But what I want to say is that what he is…

…But what I want to say is that what he is doing now, Biden, okay, maybe I should be paranoiac and claim what Trump claims. I don't know. That he's just old senile and he's evil communist, as Trump put it, advisors, bring him just measures, papers…

…I should be paranoiac and claim what Trump claims. I don't know. That he's just old senile and he's evil communist, as Trump put it, advisors, bring him just measures, papers to sign. But listen, the second big couple of trillions program for ecology and…

…politics is about accepting that your hands will be dirty. And the position of no contact with Biden, he is the same as Trump, is what I call principled opportunism. You use your principles to occupy this safe position. No, my hands are not dirty. I…

…you this, this is why I wasn't totally dreaming when I said, okay, I provoked with the term communism, you know, what Trump, sorry, what Biden, that COVID will maybe push us a little bit towards communism, but just imagine, before COVID era, Could you…

…liberals, not equality, we join you, but the message should be, you know what interests me more and more? Did you notice how Trump, and also in Europe, Hungary. It goes to what Orban said two, three months ago, I quoted him, that liberals don't exist…

…what this reminds me of? Don't misunderstand me. It's not, we are all friends, blah, blah, blah. But this is so horrible about Trump and so on, that the political debate is getting so brutal. I think we need civilization which was active in Poland before…

…relativism. But look, are you aiming at the right target? If there ever was a postmodern historicist relativist president, it's Donald Trump, my God. If there ever was an authentic, not in a reactionary sense, but how do they call it? An authentic…

…by the big corporation to establish total control and so on. Look at the United States. Let's make it clear. Nonetheless, Trump lost probably only because of COVID. Without COVID, he would probably have been triumphantly re-elected. And look also around in…

…new president Joe Biden. This was, I think, for me, a pretty disgusting ideological event. All happy together. We got rid of Donald Trump. Things will return to normality. But then, you know who was the star of the event? A lone old man sitting there…

…blind. No. Manipulators who fool the people are always themselves fooled. For example, in the United States, You shouldn't think that Donald Trump knew exactly what was going on and lied to the people. No, he was also definitely lying to himself. So here…

…remember from Donald Trump's inauguration speech in 2017, how he used the same term. Let me remind you, I quote Donald Trump, today's ceremony has a very special meaning because today we are not only transferring power from one administration to another,…

…to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America. This is your day. So isn't a paradox that Donald Trump, in his populism, uses the terminology which is usually the terminology of the radical leftist critics? And let me go even…

…me go even to the end here. We all watched in the beginning of January of this year, how the mob, the crowd of Trump protesters invaded, broke into the Capitol. And what made me sad is the reaction of my leftist friends who said, this is a wonderful,…

…little bit more, who still remain liberal Democrats with all the limitations. And then we have almost half of the people, Trump followers, populists. And what is so interesting is that how this opposition, and they don't speak the same language. The country…

…you cannot resolve it by simple, big, democratic elections. You get two countries. The situation is totally mystified because Trump populists, manipulated by many billionaires, nonetheless act as representatives of the people while Democrats who also want to…

…freedom on condition that you don't use that freedom. You know? So society is a very complex example and I think that Trump played a certain positive role in the sense that he ruined this ideological hegemony, the order of unwritten rules. And not only…

…Trump played a certain positive role in the sense that he ruined this ideological hegemony, the order of unwritten rules. And not only Trump did this in the United States, this is happening all around the world, in Germany, in England, and so on and so…

…have less and less of ideological common ground. But here, I'm ready to go even a step further. We cannot simply say, yes, Trump is bad, so we should get rid of Trump. Joe Biden and liberal Democrats should win. No, we should never forget that Trump…

…But here, I'm ready to go even a step further. We cannot simply say, yes, Trump is bad, so we should get rid of Trump. Joe Biden and liberal Democrats should win. No, we should never forget that Trump is what in psychiatry we call a symptom, a sign…

…Trump is bad, so we should get rid of Trump. Joe Biden and liberal Democrats should win. No, we should never forget that Trump is what in psychiatry we call a symptom, a sign of something that was wrong in liberal democracy itself. Trump didn't fall…

…should never forget that Trump is what in psychiatry we call a symptom, a sign of something that was wrong in liberal democracy itself. Trump didn't fall from the moon. Now, let me, so that I will not talk too long, just a couple of pages, let me make…

…that you have there, we Europeans and Americans are, I'm afraid, the true barbarians today. Namely, the ethical catastrophe of Trump and new right-wing populists is... this incredible degradation of public social life. You are able to make dirty jokes, to…

…when Americans abandoned you to the interplay of Erdogan, Turkey and Russia and Syria and so on. Many of my friends agreed with Trump. It's good that he did that. And they even reproached you that you were protected by Americans. And I told them, okay,…

…is that ideology today is not problematic when it lies, but when it lies with elements of truth. For example, let's take even Trump. He was basically a populist lie. But some things he said were partially true. Like when he said how American big capital…

…But nonetheless, the Chinese did it. And the key factor was two things. First, as it is clear, even you remember when Trump recorded an interview with Bernstein or who, and he said that the Chinese presidency already in January or when, so the Chinese…

…remember, she now disappeared from the scene, but naming a necessity, the... Of Sol Kripke. Of Sol Kripke. Even David... Donald... David Trump was not bad. I have to... Just to display this misunderstanding as a Hegelian, I... I... I like some type of…

…be necessary and again that's my point it's a tendency those in power somehow at least feel it and I think even ultimately even Trump is a reaction to this he saw not as a conscious moment of planning. He saw new forms of despair, poverty. He guessed…

…sustain his lie, he nonetheless points to many quite pertinent facts, you know. Like he said that it doesn't really matter Obama, Trump, that even under Obama, this tendency of corporate centralization, rising poverty and so on, went on and so on and so…

…should get to people that it's not a joke. It's, you know, that's one of the few moments when I wouldn't say I liked Trump. But I felt, although with that person, I don't think he has really an ego, a self-decent personality. But, you know, when you…

…personality. But, you know, when you could hear, you know, Bernstein, when he even played that recording, how you could feel that Trump was really impressed when he, the Chinese guy, told him, sorry, this COVID, this is not a joke. It's dead serious, you…

…on the other hand, when he says under Obama, concentration of wealth went on, well, okay, but even more under Trump. Okay, Trump did elements of, under quotation marks, socialism, basically already some version of universal basic income, giving these facts…

…other hand, when he says under Obama, concentration of wealth went on, well, okay, but even more under Trump. Okay, Trump did elements of, under quotation marks, socialism, basically already some version of universal basic income, giving these facts and so…

…on a political basis, went even... Some of my Catholic friends in the United States laughed when they learned, did you know that Trump gave 800 millions to the Catholic Church to survive the COVID? And my friend said, this is wonderful, we will now be…

…center. Let's not move too much to the left, we will scare the center. We should at least here learn things from Trump, don't you think? Trump did exactly the opposite, and he even consciously alienated much of the Republican establishment, and we should…

…too much to the left, we will scare the center. We should at least here learn things from Trump, don't you think? Trump did exactly the opposite, and he even consciously alienated much of the Republican establishment, and we should learn the same, I…

…hate a nation which produced great Hollywood classics and writers like Daphne Alhamid or Raymond Candler and so on, you know? But Trump, he screw up things so How will Biden cope with it? I hope they will succeed somehow to prosecute Trump or whatever,…

…know? But Trump, he screw up things so How will Biden cope with it? I hope they will succeed somehow to prosecute Trump or whatever, because... You think so? I mean, like, it seems like we never, you know, prosecute former presidents who have committed…

…themselves, can he shave himself? Whichever way you turn it, you are in a paradox. And I tried to apply the same on Trump, a president who pardons other people. Can he pardon himself? But it's... The sad thing is... And you may disagree with her, but…

…point. I said, okay, tell him, Jordan, okay, you're against postmodern historicism, relativism, irony, and so on. Wait a minute. Trump is the absolute post-modern historicist relativist president that you have. You know, it's typical Trump's answer to one of…

…move, I know. But to say, sorry, we understand you if you are an ordinary, even Christian guy, believer. Sorry. No. Trump is the ultimate relativist, decadent, post-modernist. And that's what I like about Bernie. If there ever was a common, decent person,…

…what Nixon called silent moral majority. Bernie knows this. It's crucial to get them, to tell them that no, this new right, Trump, these are the true nihilistic postmodern decadents or whatever. Sorry, I talked too much. So I think there's morality in two…

…and so on and so on. a new logic where, you know, we don't need a child who says the emperor is naked. Trump proudly displays his own nakedness. And the mystery is, nonetheless, he retains his authority. And this is what we should analyze. How authority…

…economy or whatever or the law tells me. And now this repressed dimension of the master is returning with a vengeance with people like Trump, who is no longer the old master with some dignity. And here I agree, maybe you will not agree with me, with a…

…here, I just think, again, that expertise is not enough. You need an inspirational figure of a master. From here, we should attack Trump. The problem of Trump is not that he's a master, but that he's a clownish, ridiculous comedy of a master. I don't…

…again, that expertise is not enough. You need an inspirational figure of a master. From here, we should attack Trump. The problem of Trump is not that he's a master, but that he's a clownish, ridiculous comedy of a master. I don't know who a good…

…quote Samuel I remember Matt Taibbi had a great line a few weeks ago when a lot of liberals were fainting about the idea that Trump was going to have a coup. There was a point where he got a coup. Fed Secretary Mark Esper, and people were saying, oh…

…were saying, oh my God, he's staffing the Pentagon with his personal loyalist. And Matt Taibbi said, you know, it's not that Trump would morally object to a coup. It's that two minutes into planning it with his generals, he would get bored and wander…

…and watch TV. And that seems, you know, that's great. You see, that's why, although I don't underestimate the danger of Trump, I never liked this quick, short circuit Trump fascist. It's a totally different structure. You never get a fascist which openly…

…that's great. You see, that's why, although I don't underestimate the danger of Trump, I never liked this quick, short circuit Trump fascist. It's a totally different structure. You never get a fascist which openly behaves in such an obscene way, making fun…

…type of authority. I also don't think my Israeli friend Yuval Kremnitzer developed this nicely. How... I don't think that Trump really wanted to overthrow democracy. It's true. He did seed distrust into established, ritualized democracy. He did flirt with…

…but we want a different, better end of the world. Let's not play this democratic establishment game, a little bit of patience, which also Trump plays, return to normal and so on. No, a certain world is coming to an end and we have to work hard to…

…future. Future and avenir. But they're not the same. Future means just what will come, but it can be the same. For example, if Trump were to win, he would be the present and future president. If you say avenir, it's to come. What will come after. It's…

…to win, he would be the present and future president. If you say avenir, it's to come. What will come after. It's a change. Trump will not be the president to come. He would be just the same. And I think the problem with futurologists and all people…

…I fully support LGBT plus and so on and so on. But it looked to me a little bit ridiculous in the summer when Trump was gaining, in the summer of 2016 or when Trump was gaining strength for the campaign. You remember, before Trump occupied the space,…

…But it looked to me a little bit ridiculous in the summer when Trump was gaining, in the summer of 2016 or when Trump was gaining strength for the campaign. You remember, before Trump occupied the space, the big topic on Twitter front page of the media…

…the summer when Trump was gaining, in the summer of 2016 or when Trump was gaining strength for the campaign. You remember, before Trump occupied the space, the big topic on Twitter front page of the media was how to solve that toilets problem, you know,…

…I always, when people wonder why I'm saying this, one example would be Now, Avital will be mad again. Let's learn from Trump. You know what Trump is really doing? Mostly, he doesn't directly break the law, but in any civilized society, you have explicit…

…wonder why I'm saying this, one example would be Now, Avital will be mad again. Let's learn from Trump. You know what Trump is really doing? Mostly, he doesn't directly break the law, but in any civilized society, you have explicit laws, but then you…

…that's the life in a community. There are... complex unwritten rules, habits, and so on about how to apply the law. And Trump does, breaks not the law, breaks these unwritten habits. He does something that you cannot say is directly against the law, but…

…minute. What if the next democratic president will proclaim state of emergency for global warming? Yes, exactly here we should learn from Trump. He taught us how to not even break the rules, but violate the unwritten background. Okay, but let's go on. I…

…never raises the question, which is for me the crucial question. But sorry, guys, new religious fundamentalism or alt-right or Donald Trump, but they did not fall from the sky. How could it happen that our, this beautiful, tolerant, liberal society gave…

…fall from the sky. How could it happen that our, this beautiful, tolerant, liberal society gave birth to a monster like Donald Trump? Which is why, to conclude, almost, not yet there. If you want to... Take an example of fetishism in today's politics. I…

…to conclude, almost, not yet there. If you want to... Take an example of fetishism in today's politics. I think Donald Trump is the ultimate fetish. In what sense? Precisely in this almost naive Freudian sense where, you know, There is another question,…

…doesn't have a penis. Let's say before you notice a crack, an antagonism, and so on. And I claim in this precise sense, Trump is a liberal fetish. This absolute fascination by Trump exists because Donald Trump, the horror of Trump, is the last thing that…

…a crack, an antagonism, and so on. And I claim in this precise sense, Trump is a liberal fetish. This absolute fascination by Trump exists because Donald Trump, the horror of Trump, is the last thing that a liberal sees before he sees class struggle. And…

…and so on. And I claim in this precise sense, Trump is a liberal fetish. This absolute fascination by Trump exists because Donald Trump, the horror of Trump, is the last thing that a liberal sees before he sees class struggle. And that's why Trump won.…

…claim in this precise sense, Trump is a liberal fetish. This absolute fascination by Trump exists because Donald Trump, the horror of Trump, is the last thing that a liberal sees before he sees class struggle. And that's why Trump won. He mobilized for…

…Donald Trump, the horror of Trump, is the last thing that a liberal sees before he sees class struggle. And that's why Trump won. He mobilized for the right. the class struggle dimension which precisely liberal left was ignoring. So if you give me just…

…in its precise meaning. You know what I maybe didn't develop clearly enough? This doesn't mean that, for example, somebody like Donald Trump was really... subversive in the sense that he spoke openly whatever he wanted and so on. I claim that I doubt if…

…I doubt if there was a politician more consciously manipulating and more calculating, more respecting certain prohibitions than Donald Trump. That's crucial. And this confirms Freud's wonderful point when he says that Nowhere is unconscious so deeply repressed…

…reality. No, for Freud already and for Lacan, Perversion is the highest stage of repression. We should always bear in mind this. Trump is not somebody who... literally says everything, opening and so on. No, no, he says it in a very calculated way with…

…support of a power which functions. And the big example that I use here, that I like to use here, is that of Trump versus Bernie Sanders. When these neocons, idiots, claim, oh, Trump is for traditional values, blah, blah, blah, I say, no. If there ever…

…example that I use here, that I like to use here, is that of Trump versus Bernie Sanders. When these neocons, idiots, claim, oh, Trump is for traditional values, blah, blah, blah, I say, no. If there ever was, I'm sorry if some of you know this line…

…ever was a post-modern president, by post-modern I mean making fun of all values, irony, obscenity all the time, it's Donald Trump. If there ever was a politician who comes as close as possible to a traditional elementary dignity, morality, even family…

…is the predominant ideology, even if it's not quantitatively the predominant one, all others already react to it. So would you say that does Trump I included this in some of the questions that I said. And maybe this is a way to get to a question that…

…Maureen had about the effect that COVID has on our political or ideological imagination. But do you think that with it's interesting that Trump is a sort of return of that Trump was a return of postmodern cynicism in a way because it seemed like that…

…has on our political or ideological imagination. But do you think that with it's interesting that Trump is a sort of return of that Trump was a return of postmodern cynicism in a way because it seemed like that era was over. But I wonder if do you…

…of postmodern cynicism in a way because it seemed like that era was over. But I wonder if do you think that with Trump and all of these other sort of international obscene right-wing figures of the master that Are we still because the postmodern era was…

…cynicism fetishistically, right? The formula for fetishistic discipline. They know very well that they're doing it, but nonetheless. Is Trump and this sort of international rise of these right-wing, obscene figures of the master, is this within that sort…

…here because the first thing I would like to say is that, you know, with all his irony undermining and so on and so on, Trump doesn't go to the end. There are things he is not ready to joke about. Like he jokes about many things, but He doesn't mean…

…mean it in an ironic way when he says, make America big again, United States are a big nation and so on and so on. So Trump has limits. He is not through and through. He's not all the way, as it were, ironic. But I want to go back to another…

…a point, which is not exactly a reply to you, but it moves in the same direction. You know, with all this talk of, oh, Trump lied 20,000 times, how many lies, and so on. I think that... It's much more dangerous when people lie in the guise of truth,…

…the truth. It is a literal truth which can be a deeper lie. That's the most dangerous one. So I'm much more afraid than of Trump. I would be of somebody who would have been Trump with a measure, as it were, you know, who would take a little bit more…

…a deeper lie. That's the most dangerous one. So I'm much more afraid than of Trump. I would be of somebody who would have been Trump with a measure, as it were, you know, who would take a little bit more care of. I think with Trump, it was another…

…would have been Trump with a measure, as it were, you know, who would take a little bit more care of. I think with Trump, it was another strategy, more complex. I'm more and more convinced, and I think you, Russell, already gave some hints on it. We…

…more complex. I'm more and more convinced, and I think you, Russell, already gave some hints on it. We agree here that for Trump, his lies were not a mistake. His lies were part of his message. His lies made him popular. The same thing happened, the…

…voice of truly patriotic silent moral majority and we should seriously play this game because in this way we would take voters from Trump and so on and so on and again Bernie has his limitations I'm not idealizing him but he saw this very clearly where…

…obsession with those Middle, in between, are we too radical and so on. Our target should be those who otherwise vote for Trump. And incidentally, that's his strategy. I spoke with people who were working around him when he was still in Burlington, Vermont,…

…I, I have a question about the idea of irony because I wonder if it's even subversive at all anymore. I think about Trump supporters who started out very ironically supporting him saying, oh, he can't win. but I like it's like a middle finger to the…

…they thought he was the only good politician. Who are you talking now? I missed it. You are talking about whom? Trump supporters. Trump supporters, yeah, yeah. It almost seems like the irony was a gateway to genuine support, fervent support, bigger support…

…he was the only good politician. Who are you talking now? I missed it. You are talking about whom? Trump supporters. Trump supporters, yeah, yeah. It almost seems like the irony was a gateway to genuine support, fervent support, bigger support really than…

…long-term coalition. Now, does this mean that I agree with those compromised Republicans who don't want to be too harsh on Trump followers claiming, no, we need national unity? No. The problem with people like Trump is that their modus operandi is diseased.…

…who don't want to be too harsh on Trump followers claiming, no, we need national unity? No. The problem with people like Trump is that their modus operandi is diseased. That's the paradox. You cannot build this type of coalition with them. You know,…

…modus operandi is diseased. That's the paradox. You cannot build this type of coalition with them. You know, that's the irony. Trump talks about division, but whenever, sorry, about, yes, we need the unity, patriotic and so on. But his very ontological…

…are saying now, of this integration of subversion, if you ask me, it's comical. It's for me the new, whatever you call it, alt-right. Trump is populist and so on. Why? Because I don't know if you had any friends. I had friends who were, of course, we…

…is doing. His miracle is that his voters in Vermont are, as he once put it, people who would otherwise have voted for Trump, not for moderate centrist Democrats, you know. so we are in the middle sorry i talked too much no it's fine that's quite…

…shock for me? Sorry if I'm repeating often this point. You remember the summer of, I think, 2016, when it was clear that Trump will be the Republican presidential candidate. What was... the liberal left doing for a couple of weeks. The big topic on the…

…we should again address concerns of the ordinary people, even I even think that we should reassert the topic of law and order. When Trump says law and order, our reply to him should not be no, we have the right to our subversive acts. Our reply to him…

…only in totalitarian countries like China and so on, but also in Western countries. You know where I didn't have any sympathy for Trump there. But I was a little bit shocked. You remember when was this? Two, three weeks ago? We learned that Trump is…

…sympathy for Trump there. But I was a little bit shocked. You remember when was this? Two, three weeks ago? We learned that Trump is excluded from the gang of four of mass media, Google, Facebook, Instagram, and I don't know which is Twitter. And people…

…healthy censorship here. But nonetheless, don't you agree that it was a little bit strange that when they said Facebook disconnected Trump, Who is Facebook? Did they have some ethical committee or what there? It was in a totally non-transparent way. To put…

…I know this. Yes, I heard this, yes. Facebook, the exception. But... Nonetheless, look at Facebook. Didn't Zuckerberg even meet with Trump and negotiate that and so on? The game is more obscure. Also, with these journalists, again, who elects them, how do…

…purely defensive measure, sign of weakness. Yes, I would almost have said America should make itself great again against the threat of Trump and so on, you know. But you raised an extremely important point because some of the left think that Patriotism as…

…Yeah, it's when... I know, it's like... It's evil, but not against anybody, just an idea. Yeah, this will happen when Donald Trump will join the AOC and the left-wing democracy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I wanted to start by just reading the question…

…But today, that's why I... I will say now something horrible, which horrified Chomsky and so on. That's why I not supported Trump, but said that Trump would have been better, you know. I want people who make appear, who brought to explosion the imminent…

…I... I will say now something horrible, which horrified Chomsky and so on. That's why I not supported Trump, but said that Trump would have been better, you know. I want people who make appear, who brought to explosion the imminent antagonisms of the…

…make appear, who brought to explosion the imminent antagonisms of the existing order. Maybe in a too naive way, I saw Trump as somebody who nonetheless ruined the hegemonic consensus before him. Something new happened. It was horrible. I know. But I claim…

…who nonetheless ruined the hegemonic consensus before him. Something new happened. It was horrible. I know. But I claim in this sense, Trump is part of the same process as on the other extreme, but extreme is for me not a bad term, Bernie Sanders…

…would have been laughed off. You are utopian socialist, you wanted communism in the United States. But let's see what even Trump had to do. Elements, I know how he cheated. Elements of universal basic income. Elements of direct socialization in the sense…

…universal basic income. Elements of direct socialization in the sense of state intervention in the economy. elements of, not so much Trump, but others, some kind of egalitarian solidarity and so on. I think that COVID brought out some kind of tendency which…

…Fascism was a reaction, as Walter Benjamin saw it nicely, to the threat of social revolution. I think the same holds for Trump. So again, here I am, not in classical Marxist sense, but nonetheless Marxist. I don't think it is enough just to have…

…this is horrible, undermines our democracy. Not only, it also shows the vacuity and falsity of democracy. democracy. Don't just ask where Trump is mystifying things. Also ask how was a figure like Trump possible? What went wrong? And here I am maybe a…

…the vacuity and falsity of democracy. democracy. Don't just ask where Trump is mystifying things. Also ask how was a figure like Trump possible? What went wrong? And here I am maybe a little bit critical. I don't want to go into details now, Chomsky…

…start to move. And again, for me, in spite of all the manipulations, you know, now, my God, this is also the result of Trump and last years that now, you know what a revolution this is? Now in the United States, after decades, for the first time, it's…

…way believe that there are more and more times that the system as we know it cannot reproduce itself endlessly. That's why we had Trump. He saw it. Trump is a reaction to this threat. That's why, as I wrote, maybe you read it in the last issue of...…

…are more and more times that the system as we know it cannot reproduce itself endlessly. That's why we had Trump. He saw it. Trump is a reaction to this threat. That's why, as I wrote, maybe you read it in the last issue of... Spectator US. It's…

You know, this morning, it was known now who are people who will be pardoned by Trump in his last day. And there was a secret hope, crazy, that maybe as a crazy gesture, there were some hints. Julian Assange and Snowden will be on it. They are not on…

…published two books about COVID-19 pandemic last year already and many articles about global politics, including United States elections and Trump. Actually, you know, the Brexit and the Russian, you know, the agendas. Above all, his appeal to the reinvention…

…example, now I will speak as an old-fashioned Marxist. One of the points when I felt, no, I cannot feel sympathy for Donald Trump, you know. but that something unjust happened to him when you remember when two weeks ago or when when he was excluded…

…them in the maoist times the gang of four of our digital space twitter facebook instagram and okay youtube Now, in the case of Trump, I said, good, why not exclude him? But the problem is this one, as we all know. A guy, they said, by example, Twitter…

…is this one, as we all know. A guy, they said, by example, Twitter or Facebook excluded, cancelled his account, excluded Trump. Who did this exactly? Do they have some ethical committee? Who did this decision? You know why this is important? Because…

…this kind of data, you know, without permission. And then I think that actually the example you actually took, you know, the Trump, you know, case, you know, that actually somebody, you know, decided one guy would, you know, the one or two. We don't…

…old rituals and so on and so on. And I think... without implying a dirty, false thing that he is somehow connected with the Trump mob and so on. But if you look, if you abstract from the excesses, and they are not marginal of what Trump followers are…

…with the Trump mob and so on. But if you look, if you abstract from the excesses, and they are not marginal of what Trump followers are doing, we should not forget, my God, that they're the basic... their basic reaction is our usual daily way of life…

…on I say yes, but this is already a reaction to the threat that they feel. Because on the one hand, look what even Trump and Boris Johnson had to do. Because in our ideological situation, you cannot openly allow too many people to starve. There is a…

…big hunger somewhere, it somehow makes it to the media. So... So my point is that, yes, those in power, but look, even Trump felt obliged to propose the check of $2,000 to every family or whatever, which means a form of universal basic income. Boris…

…out of the wired brain. So for me, when we think about someone like Elon Musk, I'm always thinking like he's a bit like Trump, like the, as you call Trump, the obscene other. And when I was thinking about this idea of, okay, so how would Slavoj think…

…me, when we think about someone like Elon Musk, I'm always thinking like he's a bit like Trump, like the, as you call Trump, the obscene other. And when I was thinking about this idea of, okay, so how would Slavoj think about some kind of resistance?…

…So why not give yourself over to the collective algorithmic unconscious? Why not be directed by these obscene ideas? Others like Trump or like Elon Musk. Why not have bespoke pornography tailored to you artificially? Why not have that? Why not embrace…

…you for that. It makes a lot of sense. But then, you know, it's perfect that we're talking about your book today because of Trump and the impeachment and you mention it in your book. So I just picked up on your concept of the obscene other and as…

…impeachment and you mention it in your book. So I just picked up on your concept of the obscene other and as you refer to Trump. And then I was thinking about the current iteration of the World Wide Web and As you know, the flows of data across the…

…where we should begin to form a critique of people like these obscene others, like Elon Musk. Because those guys, you know, if Trump, you know, on these ridiculous TV shows and things like this, this is the pure unbinding of the drives. And then we have…

…But the true miracle for me is still, although he was sidestepped, it looked bad whatsoever, but still, Okay, let me begin with Trump and then pass on to Bernie Sanders. I don't have any big illusions about Bernie Sanders, but I want to focus on another…

…I don't have any big illusions about Bernie Sanders, but I want to focus on another dimension here. Whenever I get to debate Trump... I got this argument. He just says what he thinks. He's totally unleashed and so on. No, he is a pervert. But you…

…calculating, self-controlled people. So I think that all this Trump's openness and so on, no, he is a deeply compulsive person. If Trump is not something, he is not a really liberating pervert. And also another thing, term that I am now writing a text…

…of first Wagner operas. So what I'm saying here is that... My answer to conservatives, these neo-conservatives who support Trump, would be maybe crazy, paradoxical. It would have been, you are afraid of this multiculturalism, historicist relativism and so…

…been, you are afraid of this multiculturalism, historicist relativism and so on of postmodern culture. Why are you then for Trump? If there ever was a postmodern relativist, historicist, pervert, cynical president, it was Trump. And the way Bernie enters the…

…culture. Why are you then for Trump? If there ever was a postmodern relativist, historicist, pervert, cynical president, it was Trump. And the way Bernie enters the show for me. And politically, I think we should shamelessly appropriate this approach. Bernie…

…the more votes he got and we should do the same in the sense that as bernie said Our target should be disappointed Trump voters. All those ordinary people who feel threatened. Although the situation I know is more complex because we now know that all…

…me, Benjamin's thought that fascism is always... a sign or the result of a failed revolution. For me, precisely this populist Trump rebellion is an eternal reminder that we, the left, lost our fence. And I think that Unfortunately, through more catastrophes…

…prohibitions you get you again you want to be this free of course alternative right obscene guy we can use dirty words look what Trump was doing and so on and so on but you end in a much more oppressive society you end in a combination of oppression…

…my leftist friends were fascinated by capital. events. They said, look, we, the real people should be doing this, not just the Trump mob. They almost cried, like, my God, isn't it nonetheless nice? People penetrated. No? I told him, yes, this is a…

…Putin in a different authoritarian way playing a populist card. It doesn't work because, you know, you cannot bluff endlessly like Trump does here. We have a real problem. Numbers tell something. But if I may add another thing which interests, I hope,…

…were to propose them a year ago, he would have been called a crazy radical leftist. Boris Johnson temporarily nationalized the railways. Trump is introducing some form of almost universal basic income and so on and so on. So just keep this in mind. Again,…

…postmodern moral relativism, historicism, everything is irony and so on. Well, If you are critical towards this tendency, then overthrow Trump. Can you imagine a more postmodern, in this sense only, president than Donald Trump? He was the ultimate cynical…

…you are critical towards this tendency, then overthrow Trump. Can you imagine a more postmodern, in this sense only, president than Donald Trump? He was the ultimate cynical relativist, ironist, and so on, and so on. So, back to your question, so that I…

…year or year and a half ago, he or she or it would be dismissed as leftist madman, are you crazy, and so on. Even Trump had to do some kind of a very corrupted and, of course, tweaking the wrong way. It's a question whom he was helping. But…

…but we should establish some kind of private control. Otherwise, we will also end on that list. So what worries me is how Donald Trump was excluded, he should have been, but it wasn't even clear who did it. twitter did it sorry who do they have some…

…both sides and so on and so on so The situation is here very complex. Not that I'm in any way, let's be serious, defending Trump. But I am not a great believer in Biden. But I've spoken too long. I'm sorry. You need my standard point joke. I have to…

…very successful and so on and so on. But what I'm saying is that in different ways, Putin, Russia, today's China, Turkey, even Trump and so on, this type of capitalism is, if we just let things go there under quotation marks, natural way, I think this…

…Macron, I think. I'm very afraid of this, that the threat of this new rightist authoritarian populism will be appropriated by what Trump calls, I don't like the term, the deep state, the liberal establishment, as the way to control more radical left. You…

…or whatever, when they need our votes in the general election, they will say, oh, but listen, the enemy is now Le Pen, Trump, whoever. And now we must stand all together to prevent the danger. And some of my ex-friends, like some Lacanians in France,…

…shouldn't surrender to this blackmail more than ever. And that's the lesson that we should take from, don't you agree, from Trump? What's Trump's success? You remember when he was making promises the first four years ago, electoral propaganda, he went more…

…has said men make their own history, but not in certain ways. Is Trumpism something so specific to the personality of Donald Trump? Or could it end up finding a far more effective authoritarian leader? I know, you're practically quoting that guy whom I…

…Spinoza, Louis Althusser and Hegel. They are not such opponents as it appears. And this was his idea. It's easy to get rid of Trump with his, as he, Warren Montag puts it, cognitive limitations and all that. But what if we will, in the next stage, what…

…limitations and all that. But what if we will, in the next stage, what if we will get a more pragmatic, ruthless, intelligent Trump? In principle, I agree, but I would like to add two things. In principle, I agree in what sense? Do you know that…

…as a tragedy. And I think in some sense, not that it wasn't dangerous. What happened on capital and a lot of this Trump mass movement, they are still at the level of a farce. Although they are discreetly supported by billionaires, but you don't make a…

…white people. Not only white, but also poor guys, or not yet poor, but threatened with new poverty, who otherwise would have voted for Trump. And here, I'm repeating an old poem, but I like to repeat it. We should go to the end here. As I already…

…And here, I'm repeating an old poem, but I like to repeat it. We should go to the end here. As I already said, Trump. We should appeal to these people precisely in their sense of everyday decency and so on. We should tell them, listen, I understand…

…and so on. We should tell them, listen, I understand you, you don't like postmodern historicism, relativism, so turn away from Trump. If there is a guy who embodies, not in Nixon's cynical sense, Richard Nixon's, but in some basic sense, common decency,…

…thing which cost me more enemies than anything else. To say I exaggerated a little bit. I mean, I admit it. To say Trump is better than Hillary. Without Trump, I doubt if democratic socialism, what they call like this, would gain such a force in the…

…than anything else. To say I exaggerated a little bit. I mean, I admit it. To say Trump is better than Hillary. Without Trump, I doubt if democratic socialism, what they call like this, would gain such a force in the United States. Because also, don't…

…learn in a proper political way to, I don't like the word, exploit, but to deal with COVID. Because on the one, Trump towards COVID, it's a very interesting antagonistic relationship. On the one hand, it was basically the pandemic which ruined Trump. I'm…

…one, Trump towards COVID, it's a very interesting antagonistic relationship. On the one hand, it was basically the pandemic which ruined Trump. I'm afraid that without the pandemic, Trump would have won again, even in a relatively easy way. But on the other…

…interesting antagonistic relationship. On the one hand, it was basically the pandemic which ruined Trump. I'm afraid that without the pandemic, Trump would have won again, even in a relatively easy way. But on the other hand, I think that Trump's, what…

…exploit this no you cannot just count automatically on our support we don't accept this game to the end you know oh sorry Trump is ultimate evil, so whatever you do, anything, we will forget about our principles. No. In short term, this may work, but in…

…gaining power now or being sidestepped, manipulated, then I'm afraid that the scenario that you hinted at, you know, that a new Trump, which I think will still be a demagogic clown, but more intelligent in the sense of, organizing the background support of…

…of state organizations like secret police and so on, of big capital and so on, may really come back. Because again, Trump is specifically an American phenomenon, but it's an American expression of a global threat today. Don't have any illusions here. Europe…

…mob in all its brutality is legitimate. And again, the problem is, and I think, will they survive the demolition of Donald Trump? Unfortunately, I think they will. And I think that, but the battle is not lost for a simple reason that pandemics other…

…need violence, hopefully in a not physically violent way, but general strikes, mass demonstrations, whatever. But I think that all these Trump stupidities, Antifa, they are the truly violent. No, today we are in an epoch where the right, this new populist…

…a strange way, I respect them is not the right word. Just understand them, whatever. You know, I know that the proof of the phrase Trump we want our life back. Something was stolen from us and we want it back. Elections, our way of life, and so on. I…

…accept the alternative that is offered to us either total digital and social control or on the other side this false of Trump populist false denial because the logic of Trump and his followers is clear is relatively clear here you pretend to speak about…

…either total digital and social control or on the other side this false of Trump populist false denial because the logic of Trump and his followers is clear is relatively clear here you pretend to speak about let's cut of course the bullshit simply middle…

…to your Aguila question, why communism? Because You know why I put this provocative formula? Look, believe me or not, I don't like Trump. The only slight point, I hope you will agree here, when I find, again, sympathy is totally wrong word, but what I…

…can ruin or make So what I'm saying is that, you see, this is one situation when society has to take control. is the poor Trump, he fully deserved it. But don't you agree that since de facto, even if they deny it, Facebook and so on, Twitter are not…

…has to accept that, hey, at some level, at some level, economy has to be socialized. Look at the lowest of the lowest, Donald Trump. He had de facto to is some kind of universal basic income. Okay, he did it in a cheating way. Much more money went…

…of race and so on and so on. How he cheated... So, this is the first thing. The second thing, elements of socialization. Even Trump was forced in a certain way to evoke that law or rule, I don't know, which was, I think, first practiced by Franklin…

…play this double game, you know, like, yeah, yeah, pandemic, but we shouldn't hurt, or how do the right-wingers say, not only Trump, their popular phrase is, the medicine shouldn't be worse than illness itself. My answer to this is, yes, sorry. No, no,…

…why I made that terrible statement four years ago, to which I still speak, but not in the sense, my God, that I support Trump. Let's be objective now. Trump is a disgusting nightmare and so on, but with him a certain rift, tension appeared in, we use…

…four years ago, to which I still speak, but not in the sense, my God, that I support Trump. Let's be objective now. Trump is a disgusting nightmare and so on, but with him a certain rift, tension appeared in, we use the old-fashioned terms, the ruling…

…for us. For me, in the long term, for me, Biden is my catastrophe, because he didn't take the basic lesson from Trump, which we, the left, should take. You remember that also when Trump was doing the presidential campaign, some so-called, under quotation…

…because he didn't take the basic lesson from Trump, which we, the left, should take. You remember that also when Trump was doing the presidential campaign, some so-called, under quotation marks, moderates in the Republican Party said, but you are going…

…In the long term, the only chance for Democrats, which have been Democratic Party, not to occupy the center, but to get Trump voters, those desperate Democrats. They are not all Trump voters, but many of them are. Desperate lower middle class farmers in…

…which have been Democratic Party, not to occupy the center, but to get Trump voters, those desperate Democrats. They are not all Trump voters, but many of them are. Desperate lower middle class farmers in Vermont and so on. And so sometimes that's the…

…and so on and so on. So I think that the left shouldn't now fall into this trap of Now, the fascist danger of Trump is the only big danger. Now is the point to ask a deeper question. What was the democratic establishment doing wrong that something…

…only big danger. Now is the point to ask a deeper question. What was the democratic establishment doing wrong that something like Trump could have emerged? This is the crucial question. That's why I'm a moderate pessimist here, if you ask me. If we will…

…normality, balance and so on, we will precisely in the long term be reproducing the situation which gave birth to which gave birth to Trump. I think it's it's the the ultimate enemy for me not that they are worse than trump i'm not saying this is this…

…like the Democrats felt that the threat coming from Bernie in terms of his destabilization was stronger than what came from Trump because Trump acted as a solidifying force for their base, including their donor base, whereas Bernie could fracture it. And in…

…Democrats felt that the threat coming from Bernie in terms of his destabilization was stronger than what came from Trump because Trump acted as a solidifying force for their base, including their donor base, whereas Bernie could fracture it. And in that way…

…walked apart. You know? Even this works. I think that we know why. Because don't you agree that today, officially, apart from Trump people, nobody is directly Oh, nobody. Okay, in the United States, 30% now are directly racist. But what I fear more are…

…terms of universality. You know, every particularity, like, it's clear that this, our way, they are stealing our way of life, what, Trump protesters. Of course, they will not say we are racist, but if you ask them what their position implies, we are…

…common decency, we all have our manners. But to say, wait a minute, I agree with you, but why are you then for Trump? Don't you agree that if there ever was a cynical relativist, historicist, without any stable values person, it's... He is the true, in…

…government. You've got to get that leg room. Yeah, but okay, Warren Montag's problem is, of course, that even if Trump disappears, the movement, because according to some statistic estimates, you now have... almost half the Republican Party, which means, all…