…is partly, I think, the result of the sort of antiseptic scientific approach to the subject. I mean, I think pioneers like Havelock Ellis did an extraordinary work. I remember there was a time when you could go into the British Museum and you couldn't…

…Ellis did an extraordinary work. I remember there was a time when you could go into the British Museum and you couldn't get Havelock Ellis out even for reading. In the museum it was kept under lock and key. But now, certainly in America, I saw it seems…

…Again and again you will find these descriptions which correspond exactly to the descriptions given by Weir Mitchell and Havelock Ellis of the peyote experience or given in the various accounts of visionaries of their spontaneous experiences. So I think…