…of fields and energy. They have the idea that fields and energy are there, but they assume they're totally unconscious. And Lawrence Krauss, for example, a leading atheist, great friend of Richard Dawkins, wrote a book called A Universe From Nothing. two or…

…we're liable to do bad theology. Absolutely. I mean, what's that chap who wrote The Universe from Nothing, that American? Lawrence Krauss. Lawrence Krauss. Yes. I was in a debate at a philosophy festival last year where somebody was defending Lawrence…

…to do bad theology. Absolutely. I mean, what's that chap who wrote The Universe from Nothing, that American? Lawrence Krauss. Lawrence Krauss. Yes. I was in a debate at a philosophy festival last year where somebody was defending Lawrence Krauss's view of…

…only difference is that conventional theology, the ultimate being that gives rise to it all is conscious and joyful. Whereas Lawrence Krauss' model, it's unconscious and joyless. Otherwise the model's in the same. Yeah, I've had a number of conversations with…