…thinker versus a non psychedelic thinker? What I have in mind is the kind of debate that people such as sam Harris or Richard Dawkins go through. Putting aside whether one agrees with their beliefs or not they're at least willing to put them on the line…

…the kinds of models that ethologists have of groups are not terribly well. Their focus has been distorted by the Richard Dawkins type people where it's all the selfish genes and it's seen as individual competition and struggle. And maybe that perspective…