…is something that reveals about themselves that you say I would never have read that anywhere Yeah. And you also mentioned Thomas Lytle. I'm very interested, again, back to this sort of amateur idea, because during that era in the 1980s, especially, it…

…was amateurs versus nobody else. There only really were amateur investigators at that time. And I think it was people like Thomas Lytle who had no academic background. credentials or affiliations who are kind of keeping the torch lit during the dark ages.…

…it became sort of politicized. Like, I don't know if you've seen that argument between Jonathan Ott and, um, and, uh, Thomas Lytle that was published in the journal of psychedelic drugs, but it was like, it was getting into like almost personal territory…