…see it because, you know, there's, of course, the very famous Algerian cave painting of the B-man that was used by Terence McKenna as evidence of traditional African psychedelic use. But one issue with mushrooms is that they... also look like arrows. They…

…When we talk about somebody like Timothy Leary, it's usually the context of his influence on the 1960s or his past influence. But Terence McKenna is somebody that is as important or more important now than he was at the height of his career when he was…

…These are ideas that are intended to make people think about the world. And on that level, I think that everything that Terence McKenna did was immensely effective. But behind McKenna and all of his work was Dennis McKenna, who is toiling away in various…

…passing week, or the details of his involvement with this clandestine MDMA manufacturing operation, or the ridiculousness of the Terence McKenna CIA conspiracy theories. Maybe it's better that I didn't go into that because it is actually ridiculous, but I…

…out where it came from. There's a lot of discussion on these forums about the various mushroom pioneers, people like Terence McKenna or Dennis McKenna or PF. And yet, I had difficulty finding an authoritative explanation for how exactly this strain emerged.…

…creator. In his 1976 book, he described selling an Amazon Cubensis strain. This is supposedly derived from psilocybe Cubensis collected by Terence McKenna in the Amazon in his infamous trip with his brother, Dennis McKenna. So let me just take a step back…

…mushrooms. I don't think I have ever met Terrence McKenna personally. I think I would remember it. And so between me and Terence McKenna, there's no connection at all. But in your early books, you were selling in Amazonian strain. Do you know what the…

…And that friend of his had got them in California. And he was told that they were direct descendants of mushrooms from Terence McKenna. I don't know if they were off his prints or somebody else's prints from his. And this was 1975, something like that?…

…some of Terrence McKenna's prints. We didn't get a print. We got a little dry mushroom. Right. Okay. So everybody talks about Terence McKenna finding the PE. Well, they didn't exist to be found. Of course. Yeah. And so by the time I met Mushroom John,…

…me a little bit about your relationship with those underground researchers? I think you could also include people like Terence McKenna, of course, a far more high profile example, but somebody who's, you know, doing this research without academic institutional…