…that a young child crippled by seizures shouldn't have access to cannabis. It's very much reminiscent of the political science that Rick Doblin talks about in the context of MDMA, which is you need stories that engage people and help them shed the…

…the stage a little bit. And your point on the stigmatization of substance is very well taken. I think I heard Dr. Rick Doblin make the remark that the problem is not a substance. It's an individual's relationship with the substance. And I agree with that…

…again. And so we've actually seen incredible preliminary results from some of our PTSD trials with Apollo without psychedelics. So Rick Doblin and I were chatting over the last several years and he's like, this is really interesting. Why don't we offer…

…was that we could do. I contacted everyone I knew that might have some insight into the appropriate course of action. I asked Rick Doblin. He started talking about what he did when MDMA was going to be controlled, and he really tried, but as we all…

…what he did when MDMA was going to be controlled, and he really tried, but as we all know, the efforts of Rick Doblin and Alexander Shulgin in the 1980s were not successful. I contacted Ethan Nadelman, former head of the Drug Policy Alliance. He didn't…

…psychedelics and then I start scrambling, trying to figure out what to do. Nobody really knows what to do. I contact Rick Doblin and Ethan Nadelman and these various people that I think will know the appropriate course of action. And everyone is kind…

…why this happened. Why now? What is going on? And after they withdrew their intention to prohibit these substances, I was talking with Rick Doblin and he said, Why? Why did they do it? What did you all do? What do you think the decisive factor was? Was…

…add it all together um i think that you know, the other person who should get credit is the person you mentioned is like Rick Doblin. And I say that, you know, Rick is confused as to why this happened. Well, This is at a weird moment in time, right?…

…a fairly well-grounded ethical and thoughtful way and nuanced way. And so I respect what he's trying to do. And I also see Rick Doblin, you know, the founder of maps, which is just growing in leaps and bounds, you know, um, And I think what they're…

…you're gonna turn psychedelics into a medical marijuana thing, and they were, you know, they just couldn't stop opposing this. And Rick Doblin, head of MAPS, was good, because he was wary but also open, because he really is a broader drug policy reformer…

…that previously didn't exist. So that's that's what it's all about for me. Yeah. Well, look, what I admire especially about what Rick Doblin has done and the role that Tim Ferriss is playing or Carrie Turnbull is another one. I mean, these are people…

…I had a big interview done with him for High Times. He in turn did a big interview, the first big interview with Rick Doblin, before Rick Doblin had any letters after his name, when he was just, just beginning MAPS. And yeah, I mean, I think Tom,…

…big interview done with him for High Times. He in turn did a big interview, the first big interview with Rick Doblin, before Rick Doblin had any letters after his name, when he was just, just beginning MAPS. And yeah, I mean, I think Tom, Over the…