…years ago, I helped organize a meeting in San Francisco during a Bicycle Day event. The Grays were there, Ralph Metzner, Jim Fadiman, a couple of attorneys. And we were talking about starting an above-board church. And my argument was, it's just paperwork.…

…if the research will back it up versus placebo. I hope so. I'd like to believe that there's something there. And I think Jim Fadiman and others are making a good case. But the only controlled study we have, you know, it's a volunteer study, but, you…