…tried, but as we all know, the efforts of Rick Doblin and Alexander Shulgin in the 1980s were not successful. I contacted Ethan Nadelman, former head of the Drug Policy Alliance. He didn't know what to do. I contacted Holly Whitson, the lawyer who was…

…then I start scrambling, trying to figure out what to do. Nobody really knows what to do. I contact Rick Doblin and Ethan Nadelman and these various people that I think will know the appropriate course of action. And everyone is kind of unsure about what…

…a pretty bad answer to that question. And I started, uh, asking people who I thought were experts on the subject, like Ethan Nadelman, saying, could you break this down? What are the steps that take place to make a chemical a controlled substance? And…

…saying, could you break this down? What are the steps that take place to make a chemical a controlled substance? And Ethan Nadelman said, actually, I don't really know. And I thought, wow, if Ethan Nadelman doesn't know who is able to describe this,…

…place to make a chemical a controlled substance? And Ethan Nadelman said, actually, I don't really know. And I thought, wow, if Ethan Nadelman doesn't know who is able to describe this, maybe Matt, you could walk me through the steps that... in the boxes…

…in teabag form. You can find their teas at toptreeherbs.com. OK, so this is an interview with one of my favorite people, Dr. Ethan Nadelman of or formerly of the Drug Policy Alliance. I have known Ethan Nadelman in one way or another for many years, and…

…is an interview with one of my favorite people, Dr. Ethan Nadelman of or formerly of the Drug Policy Alliance. I have known Ethan Nadelman in one way or another for many years, and I've always been very grateful for his existence. He was the go-to guy…

…prohibition and the way people's lives are ruined. And if we're going to talk to these people, we have to talk to Ethan Nadelman. And I think just having him there, having somebody who could talk about how the issue isn't specific drugs, but broader…

…person may not be severely impacted, and the other person certainly will be. And one thing that comes up in the discussion with Ethan Nadelman that I think is an interesting point is What about the people who are the jerks? What about the people who are…

…of, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case in other states, is looking worse in 2021. And why is that happening? Ethan Nadelman has a lot of very logical explanations for why this might be the case. During the pandemic, you have people who are…