…but she is a vestal. So she's not being right now, although they do refer to the presence of the God, like Apollo, when he entered the Oracle, right? These are specific events. When he entered the oracle before she prophesied, that was often described…

…David Rabin after years of research, and I think it's a really interesting device. So if you want to learn more about the Apollo, go to apolloneuro.com. Thank you for the sponsorship, Apollo. At one point you posted on Twitter that you were using 2CE to…

…a really interesting device. So if you want to learn more about the Apollo, go to apolloneuro.com. Thank you for the sponsorship, Apollo. At one point you posted on Twitter that you were using 2CE to study astronomy. I was wondering if you could elaborate…

…but it was also extremely toxic. I'm going to pause momentarily for an ad. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first…

…also extremely toxic. I'm going to pause momentarily for an ad. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first heard about…

…these devices, you can go to apolloneuro.com to read more about it and use the promo code Hamilton for 10% off. Thank you, Apollo. Wow. Do you remember the doses that you were taking? Oh, I took, you know, it's my practice always, even taking aspirin,…

…worth listening to. So I hope you enjoy it. Thank you for doing this. And yeah, I mean, I want to talk all about the Apollo and the work that you've been doing and how things have been going since we last spoke. I mean, I'm curious how it's all…

…how things have been going since we last spoke. I mean, I'm curious how it's all going. What have you been doing with the Apollo? And maybe for people that aren't familiar with your work, could you give a brief description of what the Apollo is and why…

…doing with the Apollo? And maybe for people that aren't familiar with your work, could you give a brief description of what the Apollo is and why you created it? Sure thing. Well, first off, thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure to…

…needs of people who are struggling with mental illness that were not being addressed with the current treatments that were available. And so Apollo really arose out of that mission. And that started for me back in 2009. I guess, about 15 years ago, and I…

…by unsafe things. stimulation and overwhelm and all these things that they didn't know how to manage. And so we really developed Apollo as a way to give people something to take with them after they leave the office into their regular lives that help…

…which is what soothing touch and soothing music do. And that's how they work, regardless of whether there's technology involved. So Apollo originally was an idea of just how to use touch in a non-invasive way to induce balance in that stress response…

…balance in that stress response system and help people using gentle sound wave vibrations that you feel through your skin. Basically, Apollo is music that's composed for your skin cells instead of for your ear cells that... the body interprets as safety,…

…touch, but a lot of the benefits of touch in a wearable tech and then commercialize it. And so then that became the Apollo technology that launched in January of 2020. Wow. Yeah. I think it's so interesting, especially, I mean, not to immediately take it…

…in our day-to-day from our loved ones and those who we don't have those same kinds of clinical boundaries with, you know, Apollo really became this idea of a tool whereby, you know, it was a challenge, right? It was asking that challenging question of,…

…benefit of of an individual having control over how they feel by controlling the way that they're touched with technology, like Apollo, that allows them to be more at the center of their healing experience, to recognize that they actually have agency and…

…fill that void. Right, right. Wow. Yeah, it's very interesting. And I think it's interesting. You're almost underselling what makes Apollo interesting in a certain way, because I think earlier in the conversation, you said, you know, does this replace Apollo?…

…what makes Apollo interesting in a certain way, because I think earlier in the conversation, you said, you know, does this replace Apollo? therapeutic touch? No, of course not. Touch is better. I think you said something along those lines. And I think that…

…Touch is better. I think you said something along those lines. And I think that there's a kind of interesting thing about Apollo that is similar to psychedelics in that one of the typical conversations that people have about psychedelics is they say, well,…

…used in all sorts of ways that would be totally impossible with meditation. And I think that there's something analogous going on with Apollo, right? Maybe it doesn't have all the benefits of touch, but it can be used in a lot of ways that touch never…

…be used. Like I drive back and forth between Philadelphia almost every week. And One of the things that I was using the Apollo for is I'd use it while I was driving because there was something about the gentle stimulation that made the drive easier. It…

…that well. And I think this is actually why being in this field is so exciting, especially in this time, is because Apollo is really just the first of many technologies that are going to be doing similar things. It was heavily inspired by psychedelic…

…an opportunity to reframe the way we think about altered states of consciousness and healing and making them more accessible. Similarly, Apollo is a different way and a different take on touch and altered states of consciousness and how touch induces safe…

…then, of course, the obvious question hearing all this is, have you or has anyone else done experiments using Apollo in conjunction with psychedelic psychotherapy, either classical psychedelics, ketamine, even cannabis? I mean, has that interaction been studied?…

…more we feel in control more of the time. That is something we have control over, our attention, where it goes, right? So Apollo restores autonomy and agency and control over our attention because every user that has it is in control of it, And it also…

…are very common also. But so getting to the specific examples, we actually have a number of ketamine clinics using Apollo in conjunction with their clients in particular, because One of the biggest issues with psychedelic medicine that prevents people from…

…feeling like you might lose control or feeling out of control. So many, many ketamine clinics including my own clinic are using Apollo by giving it to clients before they go under, before the medicine administration for as little as 15 minutes in advance.…

…masters in that before they got there, otherwise they might not need the therapy, They can always tap the buttons on the Apollo and turn it right back on and then kind of recenter themselves and get the benefits of deep breathing and soothing touch…

…kind of naturally and gently nudge themselves back out at any time. Um, so that has been a major use case for Apollo, which is really, really interesting. Um, and I've seen dramatic, dramatic improvements in my clients who have used it compared to those…

…people relapse and become symptomatic again. And so we've actually seen incredible preliminary results from some of our PTSD trials with Apollo without psychedelics. So Rick Doblin and I were chatting over the last several years and he's like, this is really…

…and they can check it out on clinicaltrials.gov. And the last thing I'll add, which is also very exciting, is that as of 2021, Apollo is the very first technology that I know of that has received an issued patent in the to reduce or to and to mitigate…

…medicine therapy, where there's unwanted or unpleasant side effects associated with the medicine like restlessness is a common example. Apollo is the first technology that has an issued patent to actually mitigate some of those effects and negative effects…

…to have your maps. Right. Yeah. I mean, I found my experiences with it so interesting because the first time you gave me the Apollo, a lot of people come up to me and ask me to try whatever they're related to. their new psychedelic adjacent product is.…

…about science, but I didn't know anything about business. And so I went to my wife, Catherine, who's now the CEO of Apollo and my co-founder and, know she has a emerging technologies and and finance back public finance background and and i said hey…

…pursuing. And so we did that study and we gave the same people, it was about 40 people, we gave them two different Apollo vibrations that in the current version of the app or the device or the meditation and mindfulness mode and the clear and focus…

…certain percentage, regardless of how good you were when you came in. And so what was really fascinating was that only the Apollo vibrations were boosted HRV, heart rate variability, under stress of the task. And for those of you who know about heart rate…

…goes down. And when your HRV goes down, your performance on the task goes down proportionately. And so what we saw was that Apollo There was no Apollo at the time. It was the vibrations that we were using that became Apollo vibrations were reversing that…

…HRV goes down, your performance on the task goes down proportionately. And so what we saw was that Apollo There was no Apollo at the time. It was the vibrations that we were using that became Apollo vibrations were reversing that response. So they were…

…we saw was that Apollo There was no Apollo at the time. It was the vibrations that we were using that became Apollo vibrations were reversing that response. So they were delivering the benefits of soothing touch. They were reminding the person's body that…

…everything was randomized and everyone was blinded, including the researchers. And so people were reliably experiencing these benefits only with Apollo vibrations. And it wasn't everyone. It was 80% of people, but 80%. with two vibration patterns was a really…

…patterns was a really good hit rate. And in addition, we saw that the index of pupil dilation dramatically changed with Apollo vibration. So what that means is that the pupils are extremely sensitive to responding to stress and stress causes immediate…

…pupils are extremely sensitive to responding to stress and stress causes immediate changes in pupil size and reactivity. And so Apollo reversed the pupil response, meaning that cognitive efficiency was improving. So the more calm people felt, the more their…

…utility, which is why this task is so challenging. So when we saw those results, it was very, very clear that the Apollo vibrations were having an effect, improving the neurophysiology of the body, the cardiac physiology. and the way that the body was…

…results have just been consistent throughout. So it's been very, very exciting because this is, and I think to answer your question, Apollo is a science-driven technology. We would not be here doing what we're doing if this didn't actually work to help us…

…distributed out to the 400 prototypes we distributed over 18 months to thousands of people, we actually learned that people were using Apollo for different things than we thought they would use it for. So we learned about, number one, The top use case of…

…Apollo for different things than we thought they would use it for. So we learned about, number one, The top use case of Apollo is sleep, that people like to focus during the day and they care about being calm when they focus and being more productive,…

…all the sleep labs shut down. We finally had all these opportunities to do these incredible sleep lab trials to actually test is Apollo making people sleep better in the clinical setting? And they all shut down. And it was unknown when they were going to…

…next year. But what was so interesting is now we have an incredible data set of 1500 people that have had Oura Ring without Apollo for an average six months. And then those same people who have had Apollo with aura ring for on average six months. And…

…of 1500 people that have had Oura Ring without Apollo for an average six months. And then those same people who have had Apollo with aura ring for on average six months. And then we compared what adding Apollo to their lives did. So, um, Interestingly,…

…then those same people who have had Apollo with aura ring for on average six months. And then we compared what adding Apollo to their lives did. So, um, Interestingly, just by looking at this data, all of their data before receiving Apollo compared to…

…Apollo to their lives did. So, um, Interestingly, just by looking at this data, all of their data before receiving Apollo compared to after, adding Apollo to their lives, just adding Apollo, induced a statistically significant improvement in deep sleep and…

…So, um, Interestingly, just by looking at this data, all of their data before receiving Apollo compared to after, adding Apollo to their lives, just adding Apollo, induced a statistically significant improvement in deep sleep and total sleep time, just adding…

…looking at this data, all of their data before receiving Apollo compared to after, adding Apollo to their lives, just adding Apollo, induced a statistically significant improvement in deep sleep and total sleep time, just adding it to their lives. These are…

…thousand chance, or one in 10,000 chance that these findings happen by chance, that this relationship exists between how people use Apollo and how much impact they get in terms of their biometric improvements. So looking at the six months before receiving…

…third of those people who are getting these very, very dramatic improvements in their Oura Ring data, sleep and cardiovascular metrics, were using Apollo three or more hours a day, five or more days a week. And when we looked at those people, and you can…

…improvements in REM sleep, 4% average drops in resting heart rate, and 11% average increases in heart rate variability just by using Apollo consistently. and having it vibrating on their body during the day and night, three or more hours a day, five or…

…So that led us to then release the scheduling feature, which is now available for everyone that allows people to set the Apollo to turn on automatically without them having to do anything at all. And then they hit their times every day without any…

…does that confer a superior therapeutic effect? I love that you asked that question. Yes, but it depends on your goal, right? So Apollo was designed to be used passively. So what that means is that we want you to be able to get the benefits of…

…read about these clinical trials you mentioned and see new developments? For sure. So for anybody who wants to learn more about Apollo, you can go to apolloneuro.com. If that's hard to remember, you can also go to wearablehugs.com. and that will take you…

…page link, which will take you to the literature review that I wrote that basically highlights all of the, basic understanding of how Apollo works and all the work that was done before us, because, you know, we didn't come up with everything. A lot of…

…devices, you can go to ApolloNero.com to read more about it and use the promo code HAMILTON for 10% off. Thank you, Apollo. And when you were first going to pharmacy school, presumably you never thought that you would get involved with psychedelics. I…

…else or something. I don't know. I'm going to pause momentarily for an ad. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first…

…I don't know. I'm going to pause momentarily for an ad. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first heard about…

…of these devices, you can go to apolloneuro.com to read more about it and use the promo code HAMILTON for 10% off. Thank you, Apollo. Okay. So then both of us, both groups are granted this hearing. And so the next step then was to assemble a defense…

…live inside of them. And for example, in Peru, there's a group of sedges This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first…

…of them. And for example, in Peru, there's a group of sedges This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first heard about…

…you can go to apolloneuro.com to read more about it and use the promo code HAMILTON for 10% off. Thank you, Apollo. So back to, you were talking about novel ergoline compounds. Have the psychoactivity of any of these compounds been assessed? Hasn't…

…to his papers in the description and I hope you enjoy this conversation. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first…

…papers in the description and I hope you enjoy this conversation. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first heard about…

…of these devices, you can go to apolloneuro.com to read more about it and use the promo code HAMILTON for 10% off. Thank you, Apollo. Alright, it has begun. What are you up to? I've actually, I've followed your work for a really long time. I was a fan…

…more a perception issue. And so it's what one has to do these days. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first heard…

…perception issue. And so it's what one has to do these days. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first heard about…

…also find this calming. It's a similar sort of phenomenon. If you're interested in getting one of these devices, you can go to Apollo neuro.com to read more about it and use the promo code Hamilton for 10% off. Thank you, Apollo. And this brings me to…

…you can go to Apollo neuro.com to read more about it and use the promo code Hamilton for 10% off. Thank you, Apollo. And this brings me to the psychedelic pharmaceutical company issue, which is really the biggest instance of this that I'm aware of…

…I'll leave that up to you. I'm going to pause momentarily for an ad. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first heard…

…that up to you. I'm going to pause momentarily for an ad. This podcast is also brought to you by the Apollo. The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet or anklet that appears to be able to modulate your consciousness. And when I first heard about this…

…of these devices, you can go to ApolloNero.com to read more about it and use the promo code HAMILTON for 10% off. Thank you, Apollo. Well, my tendency is not to speak very loudly. Okay. I can even turn up. Do you mind? Well, you know, Mushroom John…