…in the very earliest text. But the thing is that they invented your sparing loans at this period, but they also, Michael Hudson, who's an economist, argues that they kind of exported half the concept, because they also would forgive them periodically. So…

…that what's really holding people down is they've internalized, and the guys running the system have figured this out, that Michael Hudson had a wonderful quote about debt. He said, sometimes in the 1950s and 60s, capitalists figured out that poor people…

…all the time. Ron Paul, sorry. And, you know, is denounced as a crazy person. And so is someone like Chomsky or Michael Hudson. Right. They're very much marginalized. Clearly, there is a link. How exactly it works is subtle. The term used, the technical…

…enforcer and they'll be two blocks again. I don't know myself. But China is clearly self-conscious about this. My friend Michael Hudson, who's the economist who originally worked out this idea of treasury bond imperialism, when it happened in the 70s, he…

…what money is. So America can just set it up to their advantage any way they like and have traditionally done so. Michael Hudson has written about this at length ever since 73. The American government basically uses treasury bonds to sort of determine how…

…they hated capitalists. The role of China now is very interesting. I mean, I make this argument that essentially, it comes from Michael Hudson, that one thing that's happened since 71 is that the sort of treasury bond system has become this kind of global…

…been maneuvered into it, which is a really, really convenient thing for the guys who are running a financialized system. Michael Hudson actually made the argument that 30 years ago, rich people discovered that poor people actually feel they should pay their…