…on who you are. So one of the most important theories of debt, an Italian philosopher and sociologist, a guy called Maurizio Lazzarato, he describes debt as an engine of the politics of neoliberalism. And basically what this means is it's one of the…

…completely askew. Exactly, yeah, and I remember around that time, when you, around the time when your book was published, I remember Maurizio Lazzarato as well published a book on that. I remember these two being kind of stone mile of this, what I thought…

…in this moment of morality, which almost always turns to moralism, you know, especially connected to the notion of that, that also Lazzarato talked about it on the notion of guilt as well. And, you know, everything that it triggers together and how. Yeah.…