…own specialties. We seem to be fascinated by ufos right now. Before we leave ufos tell me about you and professor mack. John Mack is a professor of psychiatry at Harvard who I've known for many years. We were arrested together at the Nevada Nuclear test…

…of objectionable sexual experiments on you. But here we have Dr Carl Sagan, Astronomer, versus Dr John. What's his first name? John Mack, m d, no question. So what's the problem? How can scientists disagree he's a scientist is that what you're asking? No…

…that the nightmare is true it means something went on inside our head. You were making a point before I jumped to John Mack. Oh yeah what I wanted to say is going back to the question of adequate evidence on something that's emotionally really pulling…